Elizabeth Perliss: A Victim Speaks

[Speaker 6] (0:00 – 0:04)
Welcome to Zero Lux. That’s the intro.

[Speaker 2] (0:07 – 0:08)
We are the Mango Hunter.

[Speaker 7] (0:09 – 0:11)
How many people are here?

[Speaker 3] (0:11 – 0:15)
Why can we touch some contact? Are you guys in here?

[Speaker 7] (0:16 – 0:17)
Who’s that?

[Speaker 3] (0:17 – 0:19)
You go over there.

[Speaker 5] (0:26 – 0:28)
Are you touching the girl’s hand?

[Speaker 6] (0:29 – 0:46)
No. How long have you been here? We’re still here.

[Speaker 3] (0:47 – 0:49)
You stay here in this house.

[Speaker 1] (1:35 – 1:36)
Hello. Hey, David, how’s it going?

[Speaker 4] (1:37 – 1:41)
Good. I’m having a hard time getting to the chat room, so that’s why I called.

[Speaker 1] (1:42 – 1:53)
Weird, okay. Well, good. So, if you heard what I was saying, I’m going to have Wendy and John take over for a few minutes, and you guys can just chat, and I’m going to get our guest on the line.

[Speaker 3] (1:54 – 1:54)
Aha.

[Speaker 1] (1:55 – 1:55)
And I’ll be right back.

[Speaker 5] (1:58 – 2:00)
All right. So, how’d you do last night?

[Speaker 3] (2:03 – 2:09)
Wasn’t that incredible last night? And, David, it was really, really good to see you there.

[Speaker 4] (2:10 – 2:14)
I had a blast. It was great. I got a little frostbite on my nose, though, I think.

[Speaker 3] (2:15 – 2:56)
Well, hey, it’s November in Maine. I know. But well worth it.

For people who don’t know what we’re talking about, we ended up having our rescheduled meetup, because the first one was still due to crazy snow in October. But, you know, once again, that’s Maine for you. But we were able to hold an amazing meetup fundraiser for somebody who needs a lung transplant, of all things.

Very, very critically ill person. And, you know, it was a really, really nice evening. It did a lot of good work for our family here in Maine, and we had an absolute blast.

[Speaker 4] (2:57 – 2:58)
Oh, what a good crowd.

[Speaker 3] (2:59 – 2:59)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (3:00 – 3:13)
Yeah, they were really into it, very interested, and had some great questions to ask. And I think, you know, I got a couple calls this morning from some of them that I knew personally that went, and they just can’t wait to go again.

[Speaker 3] (3:14 – 3:25)
Yeah, yeah. You know, and it never ceases to amaze me how far some of the people come to our meetups from. We had a lady that attended all the way from Rhode Island last night.

[Speaker 6] (3:26 – 3:27)
That’s right.

[Speaker 3] (3:27 – 3:33)
So, yeah, I mean, I complain about having to drive down, like, an hour or so.

[Speaker 4] (3:35 – 3:38)
You get an 800-mile drive.

[Speaker 3] (3:38 – 3:39)
Oh, my goodness.

[Speaker 4] (3:39 – 3:41)
It’s crazy. Hey, guys.

[Speaker 3] (3:42 – 3:43)
Hey, Tony.

[Speaker 1] (3:44 – 4:30)
All right, I’m back. And we have with us a very special guest this evening. We have, I’m not sure how many of you know about what we’ve had for experiences in the past with some less than honorable and disrespectful people who were members of our team and were released from our team, and some of the things that they had done in the past that caused us to release them from our team.

So we have actually a very nice lady from Pennsylvania who was a victim of a person who tried to defraud us and is probably up there trying to defraud other people. So I am going to bring in Elizabeth Perlis. Elizabeth Perlis is on the line with us tonight.

Elizabeth, are you there?

[Speaker 2] (4:31 – 4:32)
Yes, I am.

[Speaker 1] (4:33 – 4:34)
How are you doing this evening, Elizabeth?

[Speaker 2] (4:35 – 4:37)
I’m doing well, thank you.

[Speaker 1] (4:37 – 4:44)
Great. I have on the line with me tonight a few other members of our main host on this team. I have David.

So, David, if you could say hi.

[Speaker 4] (4:45 – 4:46)
Hey, welcome to the show.

[Speaker 1] (4:47 – 4:51)
Thank you. I also have Wendy. Hi.

[Speaker 2] (4:52 – 4:52)
Hi.

[Speaker 5] (4:53 – 4:57)
And I also have John. Hi, Elizabeth. How are you tonight?

[Speaker 2] (4:58 – 5:00)
I’m well, thank you, John. How are you?

[Speaker 5] (5:01 – 5:01)
Good.

[Speaker 2] (5:02 – 5:02)
Good.

[Speaker 1] (5:02 – 6:01)
Great. All right, so I’m on a cell phone calling in as the host of the show. And hopefully there’s not a whole lot of static.

It sounds like there might be a little bit. But if my audio at all fails or has any problems, please let me know. All right.

Great. So, Elizabeth, you and I chatted a little over a year ago now. And I contacted you with regard to an issue that I was having with somebody in my local area.

And I found your name by doing some background research on this person and found that she had committed some crimes. And those crimes were connected to some theft from you and some dishonesty and some fraud. And I contacted you and wanted to get some more details about that.

And you were very open. I mean, you had experienced kind of a tragic event with her and went through kind of a miserable period of time because of her. And I was hoping maybe you could share some of that with us this evening.

[Speaker 2] (6:02 – 6:08)
Well, certainly I’ll be more than happy to because I wouldn’t want other people to experience what I did.

[Speaker 1] (6:09 – 6:27)
Exactly. And that’s our whole purpose here is to try and build awareness of the past events and current behaviors and see if we can protect the rest of the general public as well as the paraglobal community. So I’ll go ahead and maybe you can share with us the name of this individual who we’re speaking about.

[Speaker 2] (6:28 – 6:41)
Well, the person I knew used the name Amy Morrison. And she acted and appeared to be very honest. And it turned out she wasn’t.

[Speaker 1] (6:43 – 6:45)
Right. Now, how did you meet Amy?

[Speaker 2] (6:46 – 7:09)
Well, I went for a job interview. And she was also there being interviewed for this job. It was a telemarketing job.

I needed a job at the time, and it was the only thing that seemed to be available. So we were both given jobs there, and that’s how we met.

[Speaker 1] (7:09 – 7:15)
Great. So telemarketing, so basically you were just calling up people trying to sell products or services?

[Speaker 2] (7:17 – 7:29)
Yes. Something I quit after about two weeks. I couldn’t stomach it.

I don’t like people calling me up and doing that, so I had a hard time doing it.

[Speaker 1] (7:30 – 7:49)
Yeah, I can understand that. We don’t like telemarketers calling here either. So we all have cell phones, I think, now.

So it’s hard for them to do that these days with cell phones. So how did things transgress from there? So you met Amy, and you both went for an interview at the same location for a job.

You both got hired, and you began working.

[Speaker 2] (7:50 – 9:16)
Well, we became friendly, and she started telling me that this boy she was living with, this man she was living with, was abusing her and, you know, going on about that. And I felt badly for her, and I don’t like anybody being abused. So I started inviting her to stay at my house for short periods of time.

I had an apartment. It was a one-bedroom, but I had a sleeper sofa, and I told her she could use it. And so things started disappearing in my apartment, first some jewelry and then some movies.

And my jewelry miraculously came back in weird places, and she seemed to think my cat had gotten in in whatever container my jewelry was in, and that’s why it was on the floor in weird places. But my cats never did that. So I, being a very trusting person, I just, you know, let it pass and didn’t consider the fact that she had taken it.

And then when she realized I caught on to it, brought it back to make it look like she hadn’t stolen it.

[Speaker 1] (9:16 – 9:17)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (9:17 – 9:17)
But…

[Speaker 1] (9:17 – 9:25)
You mentioned when you first met her, she was a very nice person, very trusting, and she kind of gained your confidence by telling you that she was being abused by her boyfriend.

[Speaker 2] (9:26 – 9:26)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (9:27 – 9:28)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (9:28 – 9:46)
But she told me she’d been married and that her soon-to-be ex-husband had been cruel to her, too, and that she had kids that she didn’t get to see, and, you know, gave me a real sob story.

[Speaker 1] (9:47 – 9:52)
So she just tried to gain your confidence and make you feel bad for her so you would try to help her out and give her a place to stay.

[Speaker 2] (9:52 – 9:53)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (9:54 – 9:54)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (9:55 – 9:55)
And…

[Speaker 1] (9:55 – 10:00)
Now, how long was it after she started staying with you that you noticed things were disappearing?

[Speaker 2] (10:02 – 10:29)
I’d say within a week. But then the things miraculously reappeared. So I just wrote it off as an accident and didn’t think about it.

It just doesn’t occur to me that people are going to steal because I don’t. Right. Or that people are going to be dishonest because I’m so honest it’s scary.

[Speaker 6] (10:30 – 10:30)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (10:30 – 11:01)
You know, I’m not trying to sound like, you know, a virtuous person or anything, but I was taught by my parents that you didn’t do things like that and that if you wanted to borrow something from someone else, you asked. And if they said no, you kept your hands off it because it isn’t yours. Right.

And to go into other people’s things, belongings and things, it’s criminal, and you just don’t do it.

[Speaker 7] (11:01 – 11:02)
So anybody… Absolutely right.

[Speaker 2] (11:03 – 11:12)
You know, so it just doesn’t occur to me that anybody else is going to do these things because that’s the way I was raised. People I knew didn’t do things like that.

[Speaker 1] (11:12 – 11:18)
Right. And when you’re a trusting person like that, your first thought is not that someone’s taking advantage of you or stealing from you.

[Speaker 2] (11:19 – 11:31)
Exactly. You’re willing to overlook things and look past things in order to keep things peaceful, and it’s the last thing that occurs to you.

[Speaker 6] (11:32 – 11:32)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (11:32 – 12:06)
Well, then she asked if she could live with me. And I said, well, for a while we’ll try it. And she started borrowing my car to go to work, and then I wouldn’t have my car.

And then she asked if she could borrow some money from me, and I said, well, I really don’t like to loan people money. But since she was so desperate, I let her. And then some of my checks started disappearing.

[Speaker 7] (12:07 – 12:07)
Wow.

[Speaker 2] (12:08 – 12:08)
You know?

[Speaker 7] (12:09 – 12:12)
So your checkbook or just checks out of your checkbook?

[Speaker 2] (12:12 – 12:38)
Well, actually not out of the checkbook that I kept in my purse, but out of, you know, a couple stacks down so that they weren’t in order. Okay. And money started disappearing from my account.

You know, I thought, wow, what’s going on? I thought it was like some kind of fraud with my credit cards.

[Speaker 6] (12:39 – 12:39)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (12:39 – 13:08)
So I had my credit cards changed, things like that. But I still trusted her. And she said with her paychecks, she didn’t want to open her own checking account because she was afraid her ex-husband would find her through that.

So she asked me to put her on my account. And you want to talk about being stupid. I did.

[Speaker 1] (13:09 – 13:10)
One second, Elizabeth.

[Speaker 2] (13:11 – 13:11)
Sure.

[Speaker 1] (13:11 – 13:25)
One minute. I just want to ask a couple of clarifying questions here. So after about a week, she moved in with you, and she was living there at your house, and you all of a sudden started seeing money disappearing from your bank account.

[Speaker 2] (13:27 – 13:31)
Yes. But I thought it was credit card fraud.

[Speaker 1] (13:31 – 13:32)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (13:32 – 13:35)
It didn’t occur to me that somebody had stolen checks.

[Speaker 1] (13:36 – 13:40)
Right. So you didn’t have any idea that she was stealing from you?

[Speaker 2] (13:41 – 13:41)
No.

[Speaker 1] (13:42 – 13:47)
And when you raised that to her, hey, money is missing from my account, or did you raise that to her, and what was her reaction?

[Speaker 2] (13:47 – 14:21)
No, I didn’t. Because it never occurred to me that she would do that. I thought, well, she’s making money.

She doesn’t need mine. I was basically on disability, so I was still getting my disability checks, so I was still getting money. Right.

And I could afford my apartment and, you know, my rent and my other bills that I paid every month. And then all of a sudden I was overdrawn.

[Speaker 6] (14:22 – 14:23)
Uh-huh.

[Speaker 2] (14:23 – 14:46)
And so I thought somebody had gotten hold of my credit card numbers through the Internet. Right. And, you know, I thought, well, maybe that was it.

So I had my cards changed. But this was a period of time over a couple of weeks. You know, it didn’t just happen in one or two weeks.

This was taking place over a period of time.

[Speaker 1] (14:47 – 14:48)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (14:48 – 14:49)
And so…

[Speaker 1] (14:49 – 14:53)
Now, when she moved in, did you ask her to contribute at all to the cost of the household?

[Speaker 2] (14:55 – 14:57)
No, it didn’t occur to me to do that.

[Speaker 1] (14:58 – 15:02)
So you just opened your home to her and let her stay there at no cost to her?

[Speaker 2] (15:03 – 15:03)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (15:04 – 15:05)
That was very nice of you.

[Speaker 2] (15:05 – 15:05)
You want to talk about dumb.

[Speaker 1] (15:08 – 15:16)
Well, I don’t think it’s dumb. I think it’s, you know, naivety and just innocence and not knowing that there are people out there who will do these things to other people.

[Speaker 3] (15:17 – 15:36)
Right. And, Tony, you know, I mean, there was a story behind this, too. You know, this is a poor woman who is being, you know, victimized.

She’s being beaten and everything else you can imagine. So, you know, you can’t blame her for wanting to say, well, you know, come on in and have a little downtime with me where you’re safe.

[Speaker 1] (15:37 – 15:43)
Right. Exactly. Exactly.

Okay. So, sorry. That’s all right.

Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (15:44 – 16:32)
Well, she asked me to put her on my checking account. So I took her to my bank. And while I was there, the bank manager, who I knew from banking there for a long period of time, said it wasn’t a good idea and I really shouldn’t put her on my account.

But it never, like I said, very naive, or I was. I’m not anymore. But I like to think I’m not anyway.

Maybe I still am. I don’t know. But I said, well, I trust her.

Why would she steal from me? I’ve been nothing but good to her. So it didn’t occur to me that that wasn’t going to stop somebody from stealing from me.

[Speaker 6] (16:32 – 16:32)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (16:32 – 16:47)
So I thought, you know, our agreement was that she only used the money that she put in the account. And she didn’t touch the money I put in because I would never consider touching her money. So I didn’t think she’d touch mine.

[Speaker 6] (16:48 – 16:48)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (16:49 – 17:18)
But I put her on my account. And then, God forbid, she started helping herself. She was saying, or her father was sending her money or buying her these things that were all of a sudden showing up.

And then I was being overdrawn here and overdrawn there and I couldn’t understand it. And I couldn’t understand it to the tune of $5,000. It was said and done.

[Speaker 1] (17:20 – 17:20)
Whoa.

[Speaker 2] (17:21 – 17:24)
Yeah. $5,000. And that was just from me.

[Speaker 1] (17:24 – 17:58)
Now, okay, so just I want to step back a little bit and just ask a few more questions so we can get some more detail about this. And, again, you know, I don’t want this to be any kind of, you know, any kind of criticism of you, but just so we can understand just how you are manipulated by this person. So this person, and this is kind of a trend, she made you think that she was in an abusive relationship, she was hiding from somebody who would cause her harm, and that’s why she could not get a bank account of her own and asked you to put her on your bank account.

[Speaker 2] (18:00 – 18:01)
Yeah, basically.

[Speaker 1] (18:02 – 18:04)
And you did so willingly to try and help her out.

[Speaker 2] (18:05 – 19:11)
Right. Well, first things didn’t, you know, go badly. But she said, well, let’s get a two-bedroom together instead of your one-bedroom.

And I said, well, let me think about it, and I talked to my mother. And my mother met Amy, and my mother didn’t say anything negative in front of Amy, but she took me aside and said, you know, anything that sounds too good to be true is. I said, yes, Mommy, but.

And she said, well, you know, you’re going to do what you’re going to do. I’m not going to stop you, but I don’t think it’s a good idea. And I said, well, she needs my help, Mom.

And besides, you know, it will cut my expenses if I share an apartment, because then I won’t have all the bills myself. And instead of spending, you know, this much amount of money, I’ll only be paying half the rent and half the utilities, you know.

[Speaker 7] (19:12 – 19:12)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (19:12 – 19:17)
Mama said, well, you’re going to, you know. She suggested I don’t do it, but she didn’t say no.

[Speaker 7] (19:18 – 19:18)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (19:19 – 19:29)
And I didn’t listen, and I have learned from past experiences since then that if my mother says don’t do something, I don’t do it anymore.

[Speaker 6] (19:29 – 19:30)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (19:30 – 19:35)
But at the time, being as naive as I was, I did it.

[Speaker 7] (19:36 – 19:36)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (19:36 – 19:43)
And we got a two-bedroom, and all of a sudden her boyfriend’s back in the picture, and he’s no longer beating her up.

[Speaker 6] (19:44 – 19:44)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 2] (19:45 – 19:54)
I didn’t trust him, but that was, you know, I kept my opinions to myself because I figured, you know, you’re going to do what you’re going to do.

[Speaker 1] (19:55 – 20:07)
Yeah. So she stole a bunch of money from you before you even put her on your bank account. Did she in any way give you any money to try and help out for that missing money that you thought was stolen by someone?

[Speaker 2] (20:07 – 20:18)
Oh, yeah. She did. She actually gave me $100 that I deposited in my checking account, which, of course, then later on disappeared.

[Speaker 1] (20:19 – 20:24)
Now, how much at that point when she gave you that $100, how much had disappeared from your bank account?

[Speaker 2] (20:25 – 20:30)
Well, at that point, not much, only about maybe a little over $100.

[Speaker 6] (20:31 – 20:31)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (20:31 – 21:32)
And so I just let it slide. You know, I don’t know how to describe myself. I’m not stupid, although some of the things I’ve done have made me question my intelligence.

I studied at college to teach high school English. I had very good grades. I’m not just book smart, but for the most part, I’m usually very smart.

I have a very high IQ, borderline genius. A couple of people in my immediate family are geniuses, and the rest of us are way above average. Anyway, she hadn’t really taken much before we moved in together.

It was after we moved in together into the two-bedroom that money really started disappearing, and I started bitching to her about it, and her boyfriend started threatening me.

[Speaker 1] (21:35 – 21:43)
Let’s pause for a moment, Elizabeth. So you guys moved into a two-bedroom apartment. Yes.

You put her on your checking account.

[Speaker 9] (21:44 – 21:44)
Yes.

[Speaker 1] (21:45 – 21:50)
Did you at any time, was she contributing her paycheck into the checking account, or was…

[Speaker 2] (21:51 – 22:03)
She was basically cashing her paycheck through my checking account, but her money wasn’t staying in there, and my money was disappearing. You know?

[Speaker 1] (22:03 – 22:09)
Now, how soon after you had added her to your checking account did your money start disappearing again?

[Speaker 2] (22:10 – 22:12)
Oh, I’d say two weeks.

[Speaker 1] (22:13 – 22:16)
Okay, and was it now larger sums of money, because before it was a small amount?

[Speaker 2] (22:16 – 22:17)
Yes.

[Speaker 1] (22:17 – 22:18)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (22:18 – 22:31)
It was… She had taken a stack of my checks from my box of checks. She had gone down a few rows so that it wasn’t, you know, obvious.

[Speaker 6] (22:32 – 22:33)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (22:33 – 23:17)
And all of a sudden my bank’s calling me up saying, you know, your check to so-and-so bounced. I said, what check to so-and-so? I’ve never been there.

Well, we have a check that Amy Morrison signed. And I’d say, okay, and I’d take down the check number and the place and the amount, and I’d contact her and she’d say, oh, well, I put my check in, you know, your account. And I’d say, well, it isn’t there, your money.

And I’m overdrawn, and that means you’re overdrawn.

[Speaker 6] (23:18 – 23:18)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (23:19 – 23:32)
And didn’t bother her. Well, she lost the apartment. I ended up moving out of there and into a place for homeless people.

[Speaker 1] (23:33 – 23:42)
Wow. Wow. So she stole all of your money, took it all out of the bank account, bouncing checks all over the place, and now you’re homeless?

[Speaker 6] (23:43 – 23:43)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (23:44 – 23:51)
When you moved into the apartment with Amy, how long did you guys actually stay there together?

[Speaker 2] (23:53 – 23:54)
A month.

[Speaker 1] (23:54 – 24:03)
A month. So you were there for a month. Yeah.

And what was the arrangement you made as far as paying the utilities and bills and stuff like that? Were you supposed to split them?

[Speaker 2] (24:03 – 25:04)
She was paying half, she was paying half. But her half, I never got her half. I paid the entire security deposit plus the first month’s rent.

She didn’t pay any of it. I paid for all the hookups. It seems that I paid for everything.

We moved in the beginning of November. And by the end of November, I had moved into a homeless shelter. And she continued to live there until she was evicted.

I had gotten rid of a lot of my furniture because she bought all new stuff, which was, of course, repossessed. But in the meantime, I no longer had my things. And she had basically stolen everything I had.

[Speaker 1] (25:05 – 25:11)
Wow. Now, you had mentioned some of your mother’s heirloom jewelry that had gone missing as well.

[Speaker 2] (25:12 – 25:45)
Oh, it was my great-grandmother’s cameo brooch that had a hook on it to be able to hang on a chain as well. That was the only thing I had of my great-grandmother. And when I moved out, that disappeared from my jewelry box.

Wow. And also my wedding ring and a couple other pieces of jewelry disappeared.

[Speaker 1] (25:47 – 25:52)
Wow. I’m amazed at the damage that this woman could do in one month to your financial state.

[Speaker 2] (25:53 – 26:28)
Well, I met her in July. In August, she moved into my apartment. We were there August, September, October.

And by the end of November, she had ruined me financially and ruined my credit. It has since been restored, but it took me a long time to be able to do that, to rebuild my life. I was very fortunate to have family to help me.

[Speaker 1] (26:28 – 26:35)
Absolutely. I mean, it’s nice to be able to have someone to lean on. It’s just too bad that you have to go through something like that.

[Speaker 2] (26:36 – 27:30)
And my daughter was furious. My daughter wanted to kill her. My daughter is not a violent person, but I tell you, I had friends coming to me and saying, why didn’t you let us know?

We would have been there for you. And I said, I don’t like to dump my problems on other people. We’re your friends.

That’s what we’re here for. When we have problems, we know we can turn to you. Why don’t you turn to us?

And I say, well, I don’t know. I guess I’m stupid that way. I just don’t like to have to lean on other people, but sometimes you have to.

And I’m very lucky in my friends and in my family. And I have been very careful since then about who I let into my life.

[Speaker 1] (27:31 – 27:42)
Yeah, and you really need to be. I mean, it’s a shame that you have to go through that, but it’s good in that you now have had that life lesson and you know to be a little more cautious around people so you won’t be taken advantage of again.

[Speaker 2] (27:43 – 28:05)
I know, but you know what? I’m still always ready to help people. Because my mother says it’s our nature.

We can’t help it. We do that. She’s done it and been taken advantage of and so have I.

Unfortunately, we’re trusting. Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (28:06 – 28:15)
Now, when you met Amy, she had a boyfriend or she had an abusive boyfriend supposedly, and then all of a sudden this boyfriend is now back in her life.

[Speaker 2] (28:16 – 28:17)
Oh, yes.

[Speaker 1] (28:17 – 28:22)
And he’s coming around the house and he’s coming over to where you guys live and visiting there with her.

[Speaker 2] (28:23 – 28:27)
Well, he was basically half living there, but he did threaten me.

[Speaker 7] (28:28 – 28:31)
Now, how did he threaten you? What did he do? What did he say?

[Speaker 2] (28:31 – 29:00)
Oh, well, he threatened me verbally telling me that the apartment was basically Amy’s and if she wanted, she could throw me out and I couldn’t do anything about it. And I basically said, look, everything that’s in here, I paid for. So if she throws me out, she won’t have my money.

And I said, obviously, you and she can’t live on her money.

[Speaker 1] (29:03 – 29:04)
That’s very good.

[Speaker 2] (29:04 – 29:23)
You know, but hindsight is 20-20. I should never have been that trusting. And unfortunately, I haven’t been since.

But that doesn’t hurt her. It only hurt me.

[Speaker 1] (29:24 – 29:31)
Right. And she’s gone on and done other things to other people after she left the situation with you.

[Speaker 2] (29:31 – 29:35)
Well, actually, she ended up in jail.

[Speaker 1] (29:36 – 29:38)
She did end up in jail. Where did she end up?

[Speaker 2] (29:39 – 30:22)
She ended up in Lancaster County Jail. And I don’t know how she got out, but she was pregnant at the time. And she was very good at getting pregnant, as a matter of fact.

Yes, she had had several kids that I know of. And she had been pregnant with twins but lost one of the babies before they were born. And I don’t know what happened.

She had had a baby just maybe a year or so before I had met her. So that baby was in foster care.

[Speaker 1] (30:23 – 30:33)
Let’s pause for a minute. I want to step back and ask a few more questions. We’ll get a little deeper into this.

So when you met her, she already had, do you know how many children?

[Speaker 2] (30:35 – 30:56)
Let’s see. With her husband, she supposedly had one son that she didn’t get to see. There was another baby, a little girl, I think, who was in foster care that she got to see with supervised visitation.

[Speaker 1] (30:56 – 30:59)
She had supervised visitation with her daughter?

[Speaker 2] (31:00 – 31:17)
Yes. Well, I don’t remember whether it was a boy or a girl. It was a baby.

I didn’t see it that much because I didn’t stay in the apartment while she was visiting with the baby. I would go someplace else so she could have time with the child.

[Speaker 1] (31:18 – 31:25)
Okay. And you mentioned she had a baby just before she came to live with you?

[Speaker 2] (31:25 – 31:38)
Well, shortly, less than a year before I met her, she had given birth to this child. This child was under a year old. It was just crawling around, basically.

[Speaker 1] (31:40 – 31:45)
Was the child living with her? No. They were in foster care?

[Speaker 2] (31:46 – 31:58)
Yes. And her visitation was supervised because they didn’t trust her. I didn’t know why, but I found out she wasn’t trustworthy.

[Speaker 1] (31:59 – 32:04)
So she had supervised visitation with the baby and the other child?

[Speaker 2] (32:05 – 32:10)
No. Just the baby.

[Speaker 1] (32:11 – 32:11)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (32:12 – 32:15)
And I don’t know who the father of that child was.

[Speaker 1] (32:16 – 32:19)
So she had a son, though, that you said was living with his father?

[Speaker 2] (32:20 – 32:29)
Yes, I believe that was how she said it. It’s been a long time since this happened, so I’m trying to remember everything.

[Speaker 1] (32:29 – 32:31)
Do you remember what year that was?

[Speaker 2] (32:32 – 32:45)
Oh, dear. Let me think. It was in the 90s.

It was after my father had passed away. He passed away in 91. I’d say it was 95.

[Speaker 6] (32:46 – 32:46)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (32:49 – 32:50)
94 or 95.

[Speaker 1] (32:51 – 33:01)
Okay. So in 1994 or 1995, she’s already had one child who was living with his father, and she has a baby that’s been taken away from her and is living in foster care.

[Speaker 2] (33:01 – 33:02)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (33:02 – 33:03)
And now she’s pregnant again?

[Speaker 2] (33:04 – 33:05)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (33:05 – 33:08)
Okay. And then she’s stealing money from you.

[Speaker 2] (33:09 – 33:09)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (33:10 – 33:12)
And after everything falls apart…

[Speaker 2] (33:12 – 33:17)
It’s more that she was spending my money than actually taking money out.

[Speaker 1] (33:17 – 33:17)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (33:18 – 33:32)
Oh, and she had good credit, believe it or not, and she’s got a car with no money down that she ended up wrecking. I tell you, this person was unbelievable.

[Speaker 1] (33:33 – 33:43)
Yeah. No, I know. We’ve had firsthand experience with her.

So after everything falls apart, she gets arrested and goes to jail?

[Speaker 9] (33:43 – 33:44)
Yes.

[Speaker 1] (33:44 – 33:53)
Now you mentioned earlier on in your narrative that she started having things showing up at the house and she told you it was coming from her father?

[Speaker 2] (33:54 – 34:06)
Right. Her father, not the name Morrison. She named some big Hollywood producer as being her birth father.

[Speaker 1] (34:07 – 34:13)
Really? So she claims that her birth father, her real birth father, biological father was some Hollywood bigwig?

[Speaker 2] (34:14 – 34:32)
Yep. Interesting. Who was actually sending her these gifts.

And I was saying, if he’s so generous to you, why doesn’t he pay this, that, or the other thing? And she’d say, well, this is what he does.

[Speaker 7] (34:32 – 34:33)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (34:34 – 34:36)
And I wasn’t to question it.

[Speaker 1] (34:37 – 34:39)
Do you recall his name?

[Speaker 2] (34:40 – 34:44)
No, I don’t. It was quite a long time ago.

[Speaker 1] (34:44 – 34:44)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (34:45 – 34:46)
So if I say a name… I don’t know.

[Speaker 1] (34:47 – 34:49)
If I were to say it, do you think you’d remember it?

[Speaker 2] (34:51 – 34:57)
Well, you could try, but I don’t really remember what name it was she gave.

[Speaker 1] (34:59 – 35:13)
Evidently, this is a story about her father, the Hollywood producer, that she has been telling since the beginning of her time, and she’s probably still telling it today because she told it to us. And she claims that his name was Douglas Lewis MacLeod.

[Speaker 2] (35:15 – 35:17)
That sounds vaguely familiar.

[Speaker 1] (35:18 – 35:22)
And that he hung out with all kinds of big celebrities.

[Speaker 2] (35:23 – 35:25)
Especially Clint Eastwood?

[Speaker 1] (35:25 – 35:28)
Especially Clint Eastwood. Clint Eastwood is actually her godfather.

[Speaker 2] (35:29 – 35:29)
Yes.

[Speaker 1] (35:30 – 35:30)
Yes.

[Speaker 2] (35:30 – 35:32)
Yeah, that was the story she told me.

[Speaker 1] (35:33 – 35:48)
Yeah. Very interesting. Very interesting.

So it’s at least good to see that she doesn’t change and she can be predictable, because all the people that she’s hanging around with right now and trying to chum it up with and make good friends with, I’m sure she’s telling them the exact same thing.

[Speaker 2] (35:50 – 36:04)
Probably. I hope they’re listening to this so they know what’s going to happen to them. If they’re naive enough to take her in.

The only thing I’ve taken in since meeting her has been cats.

[Speaker 1] (36:05 – 36:09)
Yeah. But she is very charming, isn’t she?

[Speaker 2] (36:09 – 36:18)
She can be. She can be extremely nice when she wants to be, and she can be a vicious bitch when she wants to be.

[Speaker 1] (36:19 – 36:23)
Yes, she can. Especially when she’s cornered. Oh, yeah.

[Speaker 2] (36:23 – 36:26)
Oh, yeah. Believe me.

[Speaker 1] (36:26 – 36:30)
Absolutely. We’ve seen it. We’ve seen the claws come out.

[Speaker 2] (36:30 – 36:43)
Oh, yeah. She can be. I hope these other people wise up and don’t give her money or take her in or trust her.

[Speaker 1] (36:43 – 36:56)
Well, that’s our goal here. And we’re glad that you’re able to jump in and help out and share your experience. Like I said, as awful as it has been, sometimes these experiences need to be shared so we can help protect other people.

[Speaker 2] (36:58 – 37:28)
Well, I hope it works because, you know, until I had heard from you last year, I hadn’t thought about her for a long time. I had gone on with my life. I had re-established my credit.

I’d gotten things going. I have a lovely apartment. And I have things better than I had it then.

But even so, she managed to do enough damage.

[Speaker 7] (37:28 – 37:28)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (37:29 – 37:30)
And it really took…

[Speaker 2] (37:30 – 37:33)
It was between my daughter and myself for a period of time.

[Speaker 1] (37:33 – 37:37)
And was that because your daughter could see through her and she couldn’t understand why you couldn’t?

[Speaker 2] (37:38 – 38:08)
No. My daughter only met her briefly. But when things turned out the way they did, my daughter was furious and told me I’m too trusting and to stop it and to wise up and to be more observant and don’t just believe people because they say so.

It’s hard for me not to be who I am.

[Speaker 1] (38:09 – 38:14)
Yep. I can’t… I’m going to…

Are you near your computer at all, Elizabeth?

[Speaker 2] (38:16 – 38:18)
No, I’m in the other room from my computer.

[Speaker 1] (38:19 – 38:23)
All right. Are you able to access your computer while you’re on the phone with us?

[Speaker 9] (38:23 – 38:24)
Yes.

[Speaker 1] (38:24 – 38:36)
Okay. So what I’d like to do is I’d like to have you… First of all, if you could just tell us again…

Because we have a lot of people who have joined us listening to the show since we started. So maybe if you could just tell us again what this person’s name is?

[Speaker 2] (38:38 – 38:38)
Amy Morrison.

[Speaker 1] (38:39 – 38:48)
Amy Morrison. Okay. And that’s the name you knew her as when she did the interview.

Okay. And are you… Do you know what her current name is today?

[Speaker 2] (38:48 – 38:49)
No, I don’t.

[Speaker 1] (38:50 – 39:19)
Okay. Now, a year ago when you and I first talked, I sent you some links to some pictures of a woman that we had… Because when I first found you, I was still trying to put the pieces together and make sure this was the right person.

Which is why it was great to find you and be able to talk to you and put the pieces together. And I sent you a picture of a person who we were associated with or we had been associated with at that point in time. And you took a look at that picture.

And what was your reaction when you saw that picture?

[Speaker 2] (39:20 – 39:30)
It looked very familiar. She had gained weight, but it looked like the same person to me.

[Speaker 7] (39:30 – 39:31)
Yes. Okay.

[Speaker 2] (39:32 – 39:34)
I can still picture her in my mind’s eye.

[Speaker 1] (39:35 – 40:01)
Yes. What I want to do is… Because we’ve exposed this person before and she’s told people, no, no, no, they just found someone who has a similar name to me and a similar date of birth and they’re just making it look like it’s me.

So what I’d like to do, if you can, is I want to… If you could sit at your computer and I’ll send you a link or I’ll tell you a link that you can type in and you can tell me if the picture you see is the same picture… a picture of the same person that we’ve been talking about.

[Speaker 2] (40:02 – 40:07)
Okay. If you don’t mind holding for a moment, I’ll put you on hold.

[Speaker 1] (40:08 – 40:08)
Absolutely.

[Speaker 2] (40:09 – 40:12)
All right. This will just take a minute or two.

[Speaker 1] (40:12 – 40:13)
Sure.

[Speaker 2] (40:14 – 40:16)
Okay. There’s the hold button.

[Speaker 1] (40:16 – 40:39)
All right. So while Elizabeth has us on hold, folks, I just want to reiterate, this is just another episode in our Paranormal Fraud Series. And we’re going to…

We’ve been speaking with Elizabeth Perlis, who was a victim of a woman that she knew… Okay. Great.

I was just regurgitating to people a little bit about what we’ve been talking about. So… All right.

So you are ready for the link?

[Speaker 8] (40:40 – 40:41)
What is the link?

[Speaker 1] (40:41 – 40:50)
Okay. I’m going to tell it to you very slowly so that the listeners can hear it as well because we want the people that are listening to be able to go to these same links so they can see who we are talking about. Okay?

[Speaker 8] (40:50 – 40:51)
All right.

[Speaker 1] (40:51 – 40:55)
So if you type in H-T-T-P…

[Speaker 2] (40:55 – 40:57)
H-T-T-P…

[Speaker 1] (40:57 – 40:59)
Yep. There’s a colon.

[Speaker 2] (41:01 – 41:01)
Colon.

[Speaker 1] (41:02 – 41:04)
A forward slash, forward slash.

[Speaker 8] (41:07 – 41:07)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (41:08 – 41:09)
W-W-W.

[Speaker 2] (41:14 – 41:15)
Go ahead.

[Speaker 1] (41:16 – 41:31)
The period. So dot. New England.

New England. N-E-W. E-N-G-L-A-N-D.

Ghost. G-H-O-S-T. So New EnglandGhost.org.

[Speaker 2] (41:34 – 41:35)
Dot org.

[Speaker 1] (41:36 – 41:37)
Yep. Forward slash.

[Speaker 2] (41:39 – 41:40)
Forward slash.

[Speaker 1] (41:41 – 41:43)
Members. M-E-D-E-R-S.

[Speaker 2] (41:44 – 41:45)
Members.

[Speaker 1] (41:45 – 41:47)
Dot. Yep. Dot H-T-M.

[Speaker 2] (41:48 – 41:50)
Members. Dot H-G-M.

[Speaker 1] (41:51 – 41:52)
Yep. H-T-M.

[Speaker 8] (41:53 – 41:55)
H-T-M.

[Speaker 1] (41:55 – 41:56)
Yep. H-T. Yep.

[Speaker 8] (41:59 – 42:04)
And search. Okay. Okay.

[Speaker 9] (42:07 – 42:08)
Ah, here it is.

[Speaker 1] (42:09 – 42:15)
So if you scroll down a little bit, the very first person on the list is listed as the founder and director.

[Speaker 8] (42:15 – 42:19)
Oh, that’s Amy. Oh, boy, is that Amy.

[Speaker 1] (42:20 – 42:27)
So this picture of Amy, A-I-M-E-E, is the Amy Morrison that you dealt with in 1996.

[Speaker 8] (42:28 – 42:29)
Oh, yeah.

[Speaker 2] (42:29 – 42:34)
She spells Amy differently, but at the time it was just A-M-Y.

[Speaker 6] (42:34 – 42:35)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (42:35 – 42:40)
But now it’s just, oh, my God, that face. I’ll never forget that face.

[Speaker 1] (42:41 – 42:46)
Still bleaching her hair. Yep. Still bleaching her hair.

All right, so I have one more.

[Speaker 8] (42:46 – 42:46)
Oh, yeah, that’s Amy.

[Speaker 1] (42:48 – 43:23)
Well, thank you for confirming that. We actually, because our listeners will be able to listen to this broadcast later, and they can go to that URL so they can see that picture and they can confirm that that’s her, she may be able to change that picture at any point in time. There’s actually another website that I’d like you to go to, if you would, please.

And this is a website that she has no control over because it happens to be a newspaper for a clinical she was in recently. Okay. This one’s got a lot of numbers and stuff in it, so I’m going to have to read it to you kind of slowly.

Now, actually, you know what? Hold on one second. You’re at your computer, right?

[Speaker 2] (43:25 – 43:25)
Yes.

[Speaker 1] (43:26 – 44:10)
Here’s what I’m going to do. Don’t do anything. I’m going to send you an e-mail because I still have your e-mail.

Okay. And all you’ll need to do is click on the link. And there you go.

It’s on its way, so you should have that any second. Hold on just a little bit because all we want to do is really see that picture and say that’s the same person again. So I think you’ve confirmed enough for me and the listeners today, but just for future listeners.

So I’m actually going to bring David and Wendy on the line here. And Wendy, you’re still there, right?

[Speaker 3] (44:10 – 44:11)
I am here.

[Speaker 1] (44:11 – 44:24)
Hey, so sorry about that. That was a very long URL, and John was smart and got the bitly link, but it was a little late at that point. So, Wendy, do you have any questions or comments about what Elizabeth has been saying?

[Speaker 3] (44:25 – 45:11)
Oh, my goodness. You know, I totally understand where you are at because I met this same person, Amy, and I wouldn’t have thought twice if I were in your situation. I mean, she was the sweetest person and just so friendly.

And, you know, she found something in common with you the moment you met her. And I don’t know. It’s really, really scary how charming she was.

Because when you think of, like in the chat room they were saying, you know, she sounds like a classic sociopath. You think that these people are somehow, I don’t know, that you can just pick them out, like they’re not going to be friendly, charming people, like they’re going to be oddly dressed and acting quirky, and that’s not how this person was at all.

[Speaker 2] (45:14 – 45:17)
That is so true. And she is a sociopath.

[Speaker 1] (45:19 – 45:35)
Yeah, and you bring up a good point because that’s exactly what she does. She finds something she has in common with the person that she wants to manipulate or steal from or coerce in some way, and then she puts that onto herself.

[Speaker 6] (45:36 – 45:37)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (45:37 – 46:18)
So she pretends to be… So you have something in common. I mean, it helps you build confidence, and that’s why they call it a confidence scam.

So I’m just going to… I want to shout this URL out so that our listeners have it, and then, like I said, a little later on, Elizabeth, if you can take a look at that, you can just make sure that that is her again, and that’s http://bit.ly forward slash ut uppercase N RP6. And we’ll post these links on our website, too, for this show tonight.

All right, so… And David, I’m going to put David on here.

[Speaker 8] (46:18 – 46:19)
Ah, here we go.

[Speaker 1] (46:19 – 46:21)
You got the link? Okay, go ahead and click on that.

[Speaker 8] (46:21 – 46:22)
I got your link.

[Speaker 1] (46:23 – 46:27)
And you’ll see… Scroll down just a little bit, and you’ll see a picture of her.

[Speaker 2] (46:28 – 46:29)
Oh, yeah, that’s her.

[Speaker 1] (46:30 – 46:34)
Okay, good. Thank you for confirming that again. We just wanted to make sure…

[Speaker 2] (46:34 – 46:37)
Oh, that’s all right. That’s her. Boy, did she gain weight in that picture.

[Speaker 1] (46:45 – 46:56)
We know she has absolutely no control over that URL, so she cannot change that picture. So we just wanted to make sure there was a permanent picture somewhere that we could link from her current name to the name that she used.

[Speaker 2] (46:56 – 46:57)
Oh, Rodriguez, huh?

[Speaker 1] (46:58 – 46:58)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (46:59 – 47:03)
Well, that sounds like the guy she was hooked up with. She likes Hispanic men.

[Speaker 1] (47:03 – 47:05)
Yeah. And do you see how she’s spelling her name?

[Speaker 2] (47:06 – 47:11)
Oh, yeah, she changed the spelling of her name, but it’s still the same person.

[Speaker 1] (47:11 – 47:14)
Yeah, and how is her first name spelled differently now?

[Speaker 2] (47:15 – 47:19)
Well, she used to spell it the way most people spell Amy, A-M-Y.

[Speaker 7] (47:20 – 47:20)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (47:20 – 47:36)
Now it’s A-I-M-E-E. Yeah. And, you know, that kind of suits her because she is definitely selfish and self-centered, and that me in her name says it all.

[Speaker 7] (47:36 – 47:38)
Yeah. And what is it…

[Speaker 2] (47:38 – 47:42)
I know I’m being a bitch, but I think she deserves my payback.

[Speaker 1] (47:42 – 47:45)
Yeah. So what’s the title of the article that you’re reading there?

[Speaker 2] (47:47 – 47:53)
Uh, it says Ghost Hunter Gearing Up for a Haunted Weekend in Sanford.

[Speaker 6] (47:54 – 47:56)
Yeah, so it’s an article about her…

[Speaker 2] (47:56 – 48:01)
She’s not a ghost hunter. She’s a liar, a cheat. Oh, she’s everything I despise.

[Speaker 1] (48:03 – 48:22)
So we… So this is a newspaper article, and, you know, it’s unfortunate that newspapers don’t do any fact-checking anymore because if they did, they probably never would have printed this, but they don’t do any fact-checking. No, no, no.

Read that article when you get a chance, and you’ll see what I mean. So, um…

[Speaker 2] (48:22 – 48:35)
They can’t be a reputable paper, then. I mean, they’ve got to be one of those, um, oh, I don’t know, the ones that print all that garbage at the news… at the cashier’s aisle.

[Speaker 7] (48:36 – 48:37)
You know, this is one of…

[Speaker 2] (48:37 – 49:04)
I don’t know… You know what I’m talking about. I know exactly what you’re talking about.

Innuendos like a close associate says this and, you know… Come on. This is…

Reputable papers do fact-checking. They don’t just print things. Exactly.

This paper must not be that reputable.

[Speaker 1] (49:04 – 49:40)
Yes. Maybe this paper will somehow find their way to our blog and listen to this, and they’ll be able to hear what the truth is about this person. Yeah, that would be very nice.

So, like I said, we have a lot of listeners, and there are a lot of listeners on the show this evening. There’s a lot of people in the chat room who are listening as well. So, just the whole point, get this information out there.

So, now I’m going to actually bring… Now, Wendy, I’m going to bring… I actually want to bring David in here in a few minutes, but you had an experience with this woman just before you joined our team.

Do you want to share that?

[Speaker 3] (49:44 – 52:11)
Yes. So, I met Anita with Mean Ghost Hunters. That’s how I met everybody, and as a matter of fact, I met the team leads, Kat and Tony, and I met Amy there at the same time.

So, I met everybody all in the same day, and they all seemed very, very nice. Well, something strange went down behind the scenes because I started getting phone calls, and it was Amy asking if I’d like to be a member of the team, just out of the blue, oh, my goodness. Well, I’m very flattered, and I was asking questions, and she, once again, just the nicest, nicest person.

I mean, if nothing else, you want to be part of her team just because she’s so nice. So, the phone rang again, and it was Tony, and Tony came on asking me the same kinds of questions, and I thought, oh, my goodness, this person contradicts certain things. Well, come to find out, they were not on the same page whatsoever at that point, and I wasn’t really sure who to believe because I didn’t know any of them that well, and they all seemed very nice.

So, I said to Amy when I was talking to her, I said, well, if people are saying bad things about you and bringing up false information, I said, my husband works for the Sheriff’s Department. And it was exactly like we were talking before on some of these allegations or claims or things like that. I think before I hung the phone up with her, we had been friends on Facebook.

I was no longer friends with her on Facebook. She had completely deleted me, and I was just flabbergasted. I was like, I was kind of new to Facebook still, and I thought, well, maybe that was a glitch.

Like, what in the world is going on? So, I checked on her account, and it said add as a friend and I thought well gosh I was friends with her like seriously five minutes ago. So I clicked on it and long story short she never added me and she definitely, it was not a glitch, she took me off because the second she knew that my husband worked for the sheriff’s department she wanted nothing to do with me whatsoever.

So I mean really that spoke volumes to me. I knew right there and then okay I know who’s telling the truth now and who’s not.

[Speaker 2] (52:12 – 52:25)
Hey, do you think if I’d have told her that my mother’s cousin’s husband was a lieutenant on the Boston police force she would have gotten out of my life before she cost me all that money?

[Speaker 1] (52:26 – 52:28)
Absolutely, she probably would have.

[Speaker 2] (52:29 – 52:31)
I wish I’d have told her.

[Speaker 1] (52:32 – 52:49)
So how telling is that, how telling is that when you’re on the phone with someone trying to convince them that these people are telling lies about your criminal history and the person you’re talking to tells you their husband is a member of the sheriff’s department and all of a sudden you no longer have any ties to them. How telling is that?

[Speaker 2] (52:49 – 52:58)
You were lucky. Yeah, probably. No kidding.

I am so glad you escaped. Yep.

[Speaker 3] (52:59 – 53:05)
I know, it’s like they say actions speak louder than words, you know, it’s not what I do or it’s not what I say, it is what I do.

[Speaker 2] (53:06 – 53:12)
Well, I should have listened to the people who were trying to tell me not to trust her.

[Speaker 1] (53:14 – 53:32)
Yeah, but sometimes, you know, you have a good heart, Elizabeth, and you just wanted to help somebody and that’s exactly what happened. You tried to help somebody, you know, you gave her the benefit of the doubt and that’s what she preys on. She relies on people just like you who will do the same thing, she’s doing it today, she did it yesterday.

[Speaker 2] (53:32 – 53:58)
Well, I hope these people who are associating themselves with her actually listen to this program and check and see that she’s a thief and she’s done jail time and that she is not to be trusted. And I hope she never makes them, I hope she comes back to Lancaster so I can slam her myself.

[Speaker 1] (53:59 – 54:42)
Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, she preys on these people and she makes them think that she needs help, that she needs to be protected so people want to do that, I mean, that’s human nature, you want to help your fellow man, you want to protect those people, you want to help people who are in need and you want to protect people who need that protection and that’s what she does. She makes you feel that she’s that person so you want to take care of her.

Now you were not the first person that she has done this to, you were just one in the many long list and she continued after she left you, after she did what she did to you and went to prison or jail, she left and she continued to do it. She actually has an active warrant out for her arrest in Ohio.

[Speaker 2] (54:43 – 54:43)
Oh, yeah?

[Speaker 1] (54:44 – 54:45)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (54:45 – 54:48)
How come she hasn’t been arrested and sent to…

[Speaker 1] (54:49 – 54:53)
Well, it’s a funny thing, okay? And John, if you look…

[Speaker 2] (54:53 – 54:55)
There’s an active warrant out for her. Oh.

[Speaker 1] (54:56 – 55:30)
Yep, for her arrest. So, John, if you’re listening, go ahead and post those links in the chat room. So she…

It’s a funny thing the way the law works, so counties and municipalities and towns and states have certain areas of jurisdiction and there are certain levels of crime at which they will pursue you outside of those boundaries. Unfortunately, this is not one of those crimes, but if she were ever to go back to Ohio, they have on Lake area, she’ll be arrested on site. They have an active warrant…

[Speaker 8] (55:30 – 55:31)
But she won’t go back there.

[Speaker 1] (55:32 – 56:18)
Well, actually, she went back near there with us and we couldn’t understand why. She was like sweating bullets. She couldn’t find her ID, there was no way to identify her.

We needed to go into a place where she had to show her driver’s license. She couldn’t find it, couldn’t find her husband, and she was all nervous. It was like, what’s going on with this person?

And it wasn’t until later that we found out this information. She had a warrant for her arrest. When we had our little altercation with her last year where she was spreading rumors about us and we were exposing her for the fraud that she was, she got in touch with the judge there and asked him to kind of retract that warrant, I’ll make a payment plan, yada, yada, yada, poor me, poor me.

So he did that. And he gave her six months to make payments and check up on that to make sure she made her payments. She did make her payments, and then she was a warrant again.

[Speaker 2] (56:21 – 56:28)
Ugh, I don’t know why they thought she would, she’s a sociopath, she’s the worst.

[Speaker 1] (56:29 – 56:47)
Yeah, and if you look at her website, if you look at her website, she claims that they do background checks on all of their members and they’re all insured and bonded. I don’t know how anybody in this world would ever get bonded or insured if they have an active warrant for their arrest anywhere, regardless of whether they’re going to come here and get her for it.

[Speaker 2] (56:47 – 56:53)
I don’t know. She probably has people so bamboozled that they do it for her anyway.

[Speaker 1] (56:54 – 57:18)
Yeah, I don’t know. So I just, you know, it’s just something else to put out there. So, so here’s a person who’s running a paranormal team, she’s going into people’s residences, people’s places of business, and you know what happens when she goes in, or you know what happened to you when she went into your residence, she stole from you.

Oh yeah. All indications are that her behavior has not changed. So what do you think she’s doing today?

[Speaker 2] (57:19 – 57:19)
Stealing.

[Speaker 1] (57:21 – 57:38)
Now how would you, how would you feel, Elizabeth, if I told you that this person is now responsible for the care of elderly people in nursing homes? Oh God. She’s a certified nurse’s aide working in nursing homes.

[Speaker 2] (57:41 – 57:43)
Don’t they check people for criminal behavior?

[Speaker 1] (57:44 – 58:01)
Yeah, but you know how many names she has? I don’t, I don’t think, I don’t understand it either, Elizabeth. I really do not get it.

I don’t know how somebody, I don’t know how somebody that can do these things can get away with the things that she gets away with.

[Speaker 2] (58:02 – 58:10)
I don’t either. I don’t know how she does it. I would like nothing better than to see her back in jail.

[Speaker 6] (58:11 – 58:11)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (58:12 – 58:31)
Permanently. If we can’t, if that doesn’t happen, like I said, we have no control over that. We have control over ourselves.

We have control over our own path. We have control over those we have around us and those we associate with. So our goal is just to make sure people are educated and they understand who it is they’re getting involved with.

[Speaker 2] (58:32 – 58:34)
Well, I hope it works.

[Speaker 1] (58:36 – 58:47)
Yep. Me too. So I actually, I want to bring, I want to bring David in for a minute here because David has something interesting I think to share and if he doesn’t know what I’m talking about, I’ll refresh his memory.

So David, are you there?

[Speaker 4] (58:48 – 58:53)
Yes, I am, Tony, and I may need my memory refreshed. It’s still frozen from last night.

[Speaker 1] (58:53 – 59:06)
Yeah. We had a late night doing an investigation last night, Elizabeth, so we’re all a little tired tonight. But David, we just want to talk about what you thought her name was the whole time before she became a member of our group.

[Speaker 4] (59:07 – 1:00:38)
That’s right. That’s right. Yeah.

Well, just first of all, don’t feel bad about it because you were taken in by a professional and there’s just no way around it. So, I mean, it’s nothing that you did that was stupid or, you know, you were just a caring person and she was preying on you and so you definitely were the victim. But when I first met her, again, she came across as a lovely young lady, very into mysticism and the paranormal and just a nice person, came bearing gifts to the house.

And for the longest time, I thought we had the same last name by the way she portrayed herself. And she did this in private. We would be, like, walking back to the house.

We had a drumming circle going on that night and she’d follow me back into the house and, you know, inquired about a lot of stuff. And my last name is Hopkins. And so she basically told me her last name was Hopkins and that we were related and that she had a Bible that came over from the Mayflower and that it had all of our relatives listed in it.

And she couldn’t wait to share all the information that she had about our ancestry with me. But she never brought it with her. Every time she would show up, she forgot it somehow or somebody else was looking at it.

It took a while for me to figure out that we weren’t even related at all. But that’s what she does. She kind of gets in on your skin.

[Speaker 1] (1:00:41 – 1:00:41)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:00:42 – 1:00:42)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:00:42 – 1:01:40)
So, and on that same tone, we actually were working together one night on an investigation and we had a reporter along with us and they were kind of documenting what we were doing. And it was kind of Halloween season, so it was a special edition, special story. And at one point in the evening, they were just taking down, you know, facts.

Who’s who? What are we doing here? Who are all these people?

So they started asking us our names. So I told them my name. You know, Kat, who was there with us, also said her name.

And then Kat looked at Amy and said, and this is Amy, my goodness, Amy, I’m not even sure what name to give her of yours. And she said, well, what do you mean? Because she had told Kat so many different last names.

Kat wasn’t sure which one to use. So she tries to hide herself. She tries to disguise herself.

She tries to relate herself to everybody that she comes across. So she has that little connection with you. So she has that little something special that she can lean on when she wants to manipulate you.

[Speaker 4] (1:01:41 – 1:01:47)
And not to mention the multiple personalities she uses on Facebook and other social networks. Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:01:48 – 1:02:09)
You know, I say this almost every time we have a show, and especially when we’re talking about carnival prod, there’s a movie out there that you all need to watch. This movie is called Katfish, C-A-T-F-I-S-H. Watch it.

Pay close attention, and then be very careful who your friends are on Facebook. Very, very careful who your friends are on Facebook.

[Speaker 2] (1:02:11 – 1:02:16)
I’m funny. I don’t belong to Facebook or Twitter or any of those things.

[Speaker 1] (1:02:17 – 1:03:42)
That’s good. I mean, it’s good for socializing, but it’s good that you don’t have to put up with that. But if you do get a chance, Elizabeth, you should check that movie out as well.

It’s very enlightening as to how people, just the nature of some people and what the things that they’ll go through or the lengths that they’ll go to to manipulate other people. So you talked a little bit earlier. I just want to make sure I get this out there too as well.

You talked a little bit earlier about how pleasant she is and how nice and charming she is. But then how vicious she can be, and especially when she is cornered. And we have had experience with that.

Have we not, David? We certainly have. It was kind of scary, actually, the switch.

It was. Yeah. I mean, here’s this person who, like you said, has always been very pleasant, very soft-spoken, and very, oh, oh, oh.

When I decided I’ve had enough of all of this crap, I am going to confront you face-to-face about all this stuff that you have been dumping on us that is basically false, and confront you about the lies and the criminal background. She was like a rat in a corner with a cat about to bounce. That was her reaction.

She lashed out. She was swearing and cursing, and it was like, oh, my goodness. It was like Jekyll and Hyde, I guess.

I mean, David, what was your reaction?

[Speaker 4] (1:03:43 – 1:04:09)
Well, yeah, and we were in a public place. I mean, there were families around, and we were just having a casual conversation about things that were coming up and that weren’t making sense. And so we wanted to clear the air.

And she, I mean, like I had put in the chat room, it looked like she became possessed, and her facial features changed, and she just, it was not the person that I knew at all.

[Speaker 1] (1:04:10 – 1:04:50)
And we did find a case previous to when she came to Pennsylvania. So she was in Ohio. So before she moved to Pennsylvania and met you and did what she did to you, a little bit of a precursor to what you talked about with her children, she had actually been charged with domestic violence.

Well, a judge told her, you need to go see counseling. You cannot go back to that house with those children until you get counseling, and had a protective order against her so she could not go to that house. And that case is also available online.

So it’s in Ohio. I have to do a search for this person’s name, and you can find all the information we’re talking about in Ohio and Pennsylvania. It’s all there.

Anybody can see it. Anybody can look at it.

[Speaker 2] (1:04:51 – 1:04:58)
Oh, yes. She must be on record here in Lancaster because she was in jail here, so.

[Speaker 1] (1:04:58 – 1:04:59)
Yes, she is.

[Speaker 2] (1:04:59 – 1:04:59)
I know.

[Speaker 1] (1:05:00 – 1:05:00)
Go ahead.

[Speaker 2] (1:05:01 – 1:05:01)
No, you go ahead.

[Speaker 1] (1:05:02 – 1:05:23)
I was going to say it does, and that’s how we found you, because I found those court records in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, and I got copies of them and certified copies from the courts with all the detailed information I needed to identify her positively, and that’s how I found you, and that’s how I contacted you.

[Speaker 2] (1:05:24 – 1:05:27)
Well, I wish I could have done more. I really do.

[Speaker 1] (1:05:28 – 1:05:30)
Yes, well, it wasn’t your responsibility.

[Speaker 2] (1:05:30 – 1:05:33)
Just so much one person will do.

[Speaker 1] (1:05:33 – 1:06:00)
Yes, exactly. There’s only so much you could do to protect the rest of the people out here in the world. And, you know, you think about it, and if anybody were to look at this picture, this entire picture of this history of this person, they would have a better understanding of what this person does and how they act and what their behaviors are and expect certain things.

They would know to expect certain things. But when you don’t and all you see is what you have right in front of you, you don’t have any choice but to fall prey.

[Speaker 8] (1:06:01 – 1:06:01)
Oh, yes.

[Speaker 1] (1:06:01 – 1:06:10)
I mean, even the different police departments, I don’t think any of the police departments in the different courts jurisdictions have any idea what was going on in the other places because they don’t share that information.

[Speaker 9] (1:06:11 – 1:06:12)
Why don’t they?

[Speaker 1] (1:06:13 – 1:06:35)
I don’t know. I really don’t know. But, you know, they don’t look beyond the jurisdictions.

Like I said, if Amy were to be stopped right now for a speeding ticket or anything else and they ran her real name and came up with that warrant, they probably would not do anything but send her home because Ohio is not going to come get her. Why not? I have no idea.

It’s just the way the rules are. It’s the way they work.

[Speaker 2] (1:06:35 – 1:06:45)
It has to be a bigger crime. She has to kill somebody before they’ll arrest her and send her to where she should be punished?

[Speaker 1] (1:06:45 – 1:06:46)
Yes.

[Speaker 2] (1:06:47 – 1:06:48)
That’s terrible.

[Speaker 1] (1:06:48 – 1:06:51)
It is terrible. It’s very terrible.

[Speaker 2] (1:06:51 – 1:07:09)
When she steals from people and hurts them financially and emotionally, that to me is devastating. It’s like being raped by someone. You are violated.

[Speaker 1] (1:07:10 – 1:07:17)
You are. Absolutely you’re violated. Look what it did to you.

Look how it made you feel and how it made you cautious of any new person that you met going forward.

[Speaker 2] (1:07:20 – 1:07:27)
Yes. It makes me suspicious and I don’t like being that. That isn’t my nature to be.

[Speaker 4] (1:07:28 – 1:08:03)
One of the things that she did is she’ll go through people’s Facebook profiles and then she’ll look at their friends list and then she’ll start trying to be friends with your friends. She did that to quite a few of the people in a tight-knit community of healers and she portrayed herself as a healer. It made me feel awkward when I went to some of these people and said, hey, you need to watch out for this person because, again, it makes you look like the bad guy because she’s so nice and sweet.

They can’t understand the evilness behind it. She did that to quite a few people.

[Speaker 1] (1:08:04 – 1:08:32)
When you think about it, if you put it all together and you talk about all the things that we know about this person, all the things that they’ve ever said to us and all the completely wild and crazy stories, it’s like who would ever think that someone could do that? Who would ever think that there would be a person on this earth that could portray that? It’s almost unrealistic.

But as we all know, we’ve been through it. It’s not unrealistic. It’s very real and very damaging.

[Speaker 4] (1:08:33 – 1:08:44)
Yeah, and I think the reason, Tony, might be brought up again why this is coming up again because I know you wanted to put this out of your life, but she’s rearing her ugly head again, it seems like.

[Speaker 1] (1:08:44 – 1:09:58)
Exactly. A year, almost two years ago now, we dealt with it. We had it handled, and we felt that it was okay.

It’s all gone now, and now we find that she’s going around telling awful lies about me and Kat and Maine Coast Hunters, and it’s horrendous. And she went to the point where she contacted some of the clients that she went on investigations with us and tried to manipulate them. She went to the point of exposing to one of our clients, again, a shared secret, a shared experience.

And we were working with a client who had lost a child, and Amy portrayed as if, oh, my goodness, I just lost a child recently too, so I know exactly how you feel. It was such a close and recent devastation or disaster for her that she could feel this client’s pain, and, oh, my goodness, so you should feel close to me because I can share your pain. And it turns out, sure, Amy did have a child, and God forbid that child did die, but Amy did not have custody of that child and had not seen that child for years.

[Speaker 4] (1:09:59 – 1:10:00)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (1:10:00 – 1:10:26)
And she portrayed it like it had happened just a few months prior. Exactly. And the child was on a vacation.

The child that was there was one of her close children and had just been on a vacation, and she lost her child. Oh, my God, while the child was on vacation. Anyway, all right.

So I do have another member here who is messaging me who would like to say a few words, so I’m going to unmute his microphone. Elizabeth, this is John. John, are you there with us?

[Speaker 5] (1:10:27 – 1:10:29)
Yes, I am. Hello, Elizabeth.

[Speaker 2] (1:10:30 – 1:10:31)
Hello, John.

[Speaker 5] (1:10:32 – 1:10:51)
I just wanted to say you said earlier you wish you could have done more. And if you could see what’s going on in the chat room, I think you have done a lot for us by sharing. And I think you’re an incredible woman with a great heart.

I just wanted you to know that. Oh, thank you. You’re welcome.

[Speaker 2] (1:10:51 – 1:11:04)
Thank you. I appreciate that. I have reached the magnanimous age of 59 and hope I’m smart enough now not to be taken in by somebody again.

[Speaker 5] (1:11:05 – 1:11:15)
Well, we all think you’re great, and we really appreciate you sharing this with us. It’s the only way we can get the word out, and hopefully it doesn’t happen to somebody else.

[Speaker 2] (1:11:16 – 1:11:23)
Well, if you ever need me to do this again, just call me, and I will be more than happy to help.

[Speaker 5] (1:11:23 – 1:11:24)
Thank you.

[Speaker 1] (1:11:24 – 1:12:06)
Thank you. And I want to say thank you again, Elizabeth, because I know we’ve discussed this at one point a long time ago, and we’re kind of dredging up those bad memories. So it’s good that you’ve been able to put it past you, put it in your past, and put it behind you and move on.

And it sounds like you’re a better person for it, even though you do have that cautiousness about you and apprehension of new and unknown people and experiences. But we’re glad that you were able to share with us this evening. And we firmly believe that you sharing your personal experiences with this person is going to help a great deal to get the word out and build awareness of what people should be concerned about.

[Speaker 2] (1:12:07 – 1:12:21)
Is there any way to go on Facebook and say what this person does and put it out there so people can know to beware of somebody contacting them in that way?

[Speaker 1] (1:12:22 – 1:13:24)
Oh, absolutely. There certainly is. Actually, what I’ll do is I’m going to talk a little bit about a web page or a Facebook page called Community Guardian.

And that Facebook page is all about not just this person, but anything. If there’s something out there that we feel or anybody in the community feels that they should build awareness about or bring to other people’s attention, that’s one spot to do it. If you have your own Facebook page, you can certainly go on there and talk about that and mention the people’s names and things like that.

And I just want to make a correction. It’s Maine Community Guardian. So if you want to get involved with that, you want to jump in there and join any conversations we have going on at the time, do a search on Facebook for Maine Community Guardian and jump in there.

And that’s for our listeners. All right. Anybody else?

Whitney, do you have anything else to share?

[Speaker 3] (1:13:25 – 1:14:11)
Yeah, I would love to thank Elizabeth so much for coming on because it’s kind of like shining sunlight on this issue. It’s kind of like a disinfectant. And Amy works in the darkness.

She creeps around. Nobody can see her for what she really is. And it does take courage to talk about what you’ve been through because it wasn’t fun for you.

And we were all chatting in the chat room about this lady sounds amazing. Like you have the most kind and gentle voice. It’s like she sounds like my grandma, you know?

Like she was homeless and I would take her in. And I think I even called you Eileen at one point because I’m thinking my grandma’s name is Eileen and I was just thinking of my grandma, you know?

[Speaker 2] (1:14:12 – 1:14:12)
Eileen? Eileen?

[Speaker 3] (1:14:13 – 1:14:14)
Yes, yes.

[Speaker 2] (1:14:14 – 1:14:16)
That’s my daughter’s middle name.

[Speaker 3] (1:14:16 – 1:14:23)
Oh, gee. So if I called you Eileen earlier, it’s because I was thinking of my grandma because we were talking about how sweet you sounded like, you know.

[Speaker 2] (1:14:24 – 1:14:30)
I’m not. And I sound just like my mother who was born and bred in Boston.

[Speaker 3] (1:14:31 – 1:14:38)
Oh, well, there you go. So you’ve got a tough side to you. Don’t cross this lady.

But thank you again for coming on.

[Speaker 2] (1:14:39 – 1:14:42)
Well, you’re quite welcome. And you all stay safe.

[Speaker 1] (1:14:43 – 1:14:47)
Thank you. You too, Elizabeth. And if you ever need anything, you know my number and you’ve got my email and you know how to reach us.

[Speaker 2] (1:14:48 – 1:14:50)
Thank you. You take care.

[Speaker 1] (1:14:50 – 1:14:51)
Thank you. You too.

[Speaker 2] (1:14:51 – 1:14:52)
You too.

[Speaker 9] (1:14:52 – 1:14:52)
Bye-bye.

[Speaker 1] (1:14:53 – 1:16:18)
Bye-bye. All right. Wow.

Yeah, no kidding, right? Oh, my goodness. It’s unfortunate that people have to go through these things.

And it’s unfortunate that, you know, there’s been nobody out there who’s been able to, you know, prevent this from happening to other people. And, you know, there’s so much that we’ve heard, so much that we’ve seen that we, you know, we’re not going to go into tonight. But we do have other shows planned to talk about this same topic with some other people who have some intimate knowledge of this person and past situations as well.

So we’re looking forward to bringing those people on the air and getting them to share their experiences too so people can see this isn’t one person. This isn’t two people. This is a way of life.

This is a personality. This is a behavior pattern this person has had since the very early ages of life. Again, I know she’s off the air, and we really want to say thank you very much to Elizabeth for taking the time out of her schedule.

It’s a little late, and I know she’s probably tired. And we really appreciate it. And it’s all about getting the word out.

It’s all about making awareness and letting people know, you know, just be careful. Know who you’re talking to. Know who you’re listening to.

Know who you’re working with. Know, most importantly, who you are taking into your clients’ homes with you because they put their trust in you. That’s important.

[Speaker 3] (1:16:18 – 1:17:01)
Yeah, and I mean, when we talk about, you know, know if somebody has a criminal history that comes into your house, we’re not talking about something like shoplifting or, you know, some petty something or other. Yeah, you can do something stupid when you were younger, and you can learn from it and get on with it. But this is a whole lot deeper than that.

I mean, she victimized people from everything that I’m hearing. And the problem is it seems to be a repeating pattern. You know, it wasn’t something that happened a long, long time ago, and she learned and moved on.

And that’s what’s really the scariest part about this is she just moves on, sets up shop, and it’s the same regurgitated stories over and over again.

[Speaker 1] (1:17:01 – 1:18:46)
That’s a very good point, Wendy. And let’s just reiterate that. This is not about having a criminal background.

This is not about making a mistake when you were younger and learning from that. This is about a pattern of behavior. So this is something that she did a long time ago.

It’s something she did not so long ago. It’s something she did more recently. It’s something she’s doing today.

It’s about her not changing her behavior and doing this knowingly to affect other people. So we have, in our Paranormal Fraud series, we have spoken with lots of people about the topic of criminal backgrounds, how to protect yourself, how to do background checks, how to know who you’re working with. And we’ve actually talked with a person who runs a team who did just that.

They made a mistake when they were younger. They did something wrong. They paid their price.

They learned their lesson. They moved on. They didn’t continue that behavior.

They didn’t have that behavior before that happened. They did something stupid because of something stupid, and they realized, boy, this is stupid. I don’t want to be stupid or I’m going to move on with my life.

So if other people can’t learn, it’s just some people won’t learn. And I think that the reason why she gets away with this and why it is so extensive is because she moves so often. She moves from one place to another place.

I mean, she’ll be doing this all across the country, Ohio, Pennsylvania, but, you know, that’s what she does. This is her way of life. And now, all of a sudden, she’s a psychic, and what better way to get people to give you money than to tell them, you know, the angels of the spirits or someone’s telling them to.

[Speaker 3] (1:18:46 – 1:19:52)
Right. Did you hear how surprised Elizabeth was when she found out that, you know, she’s this glorified paranormal investigator now, a ghost hunter, and Elizabeth was like, what? She’s not anything like that, you know?

Because, I mean, this field is, unfortunately, how do you check on whether or not somebody has been investigating for 25 years? There are, you know, some grand claims that are out there, like I’m a third-generation psychic. I’m, you know, this, that, and the other.

You can just throw that out there, and there is so little fact-checking. The newspaper was more than happy to print that article on this person, and, you know, you’re going into people’s homes, you know? I mean, can you imagine putting somebody in a more vulnerable position?

And I’ve heard of people who say, you know, well, you can’t be in the house when we’re doing this because we need to work and do our thing, and you’re going to, you know, mess that up, the flow of it, so you need to leave. And, oh, by the way, leave the keys, you know? I mean, can you imagine?

[Speaker 1] (1:19:53 – 1:20:22)
Exactly. And we don’t, you know, there’s a fine line there because we want to have control over our environment, right? So we want to be able to control, you know, the input into that environment, so, you know, why are people, the number of people that are there, the animals are in the house, but we are adamant with our clients.

We want somebody in the house. We want one person there, and that person is on the investigation with us. They’re sitting with us.

They’re watching us. They’re right there the whole time we’re doing everything we do.

[Speaker 3] (1:20:23 – 1:20:30)
Right. It’s for our protection and their protection, you know, and everybody’s on the same page.

[Speaker 1] (1:20:31 – 1:20:35)
Yeah. There’s no misunderstandings. There’s no, hmm, where were they in my house while I was gone?

[Speaker 3] (1:20:36 – 1:20:36)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (1:20:37 – 1:20:38)
And they get, and they get.

[Speaker 3] (1:20:38 – 1:21:09)
Yeah, I mean, if somebody says, for anyone out there listening, you know, I have to do this in a certain way. You can’t be present. Please, that is a red flag.

There’s nothing that anyone can do in your house that you have to be absent for. I mean, it’s one thing if you’re terrified and you don’t want your children there and you don’t want to be there. I mean, that’s one thing, but never have somebody come into your home and tell you what you have to do for them, you know, that you have to leave.

It’s your home.

[Speaker 4] (1:21:10 – 1:21:34)
Yeah, exactly, and especially with children involved, that’s the scariest part because not only was it just that one client, but another client she actually scared because, you know, she did, and I think the five-year-old, you know, that was present. So it really is a slap in the face to the spiritual community what she does, and it didn’t take us too long to figure out how she was doing it.

[Speaker 1] (1:21:35 – 1:21:40)
No, not at all. And she scared that client so badly that she would not stay in our house that night.

[Speaker 3] (1:21:40 – 1:22:08)
Oh, my gosh, and we haven’t even delved into, you know, besides the criminal history, the unsavory tactics that she used on the clients. I mean, holy cow, to scare a family so badly by telling them about all of the things that come to you psychically, that they can’t stay in their home any longer, that’s just reprehensible.

[Speaker 1] (1:22:10 – 1:22:34)
Yeah, so again, people, we just want to make sure we get the word out. We want to make sure you’re safe. We want to make sure you keep your clients safe.

We want to make sure you know not only who you’re working with, who you’re taking along with you, but as members of teams, we want to make sure you know who is leading you around at your investigations. We want you to know who it is you’re getting yourself involved with and representing you.

[Speaker 4] (1:22:34 – 1:22:35)
Exactly.

[Speaker 1] (1:22:36 – 1:23:11)
Amazing, amazing, amazing. So we actually, we have a friend who’s a sheriff, and we were just chatting with him the other day, and we were talking a little bit about some of our experiences with this less than desirable person to be around. He said, well, that’s kind of interesting.

He said, I never thought about that. We’re like, what do you mean you never thought about what? He said, well, when I’m investigating, you know, things that are missing from people’s houses or, you know, breaking and entering, I never thought about, you know, who have you had in your house recently as far as like paranormal investigators or psychics.

[Speaker 3] (1:23:11 – 1:23:12)
Oh, wow.

[Speaker 1] (1:23:12 – 1:23:27)
That’s one of the questions I’m going to have to start asking them. So they ask, you know, has there been anybody working around the house lately? Have you had any service people in here lately?

But one of the things he’s going to start asking now is, have you recently encased with any paranormal investigators or psychics?

[Speaker 3] (1:23:27 – 1:23:29)
Oh, that’s so sad.

[Speaker 1] (1:23:29 – 1:23:37)
How bad is that, that a law enforcement officer now needs to change his behavior because of the behaviors of another person like this?

[Speaker 3] (1:23:37 – 1:23:37)
Sure.

[Speaker 1] (1:23:38 – 1:23:39)
And involve the paranormal.

[Speaker 3] (1:23:42 – 1:24:08)
But, you know, and you’re letting them into your house. They’re scoping out things that could be in your house, and maybe they don’t disappear that night, but they know that they’re there. So, you know, and if you share an awful lot of your personal habits and information with people, like Facebook, when people say, hey, I’m going on vacation.

I can’t wait. It’s going to be so much fun. Well, that’s telling people, hmm, no one’s going to be home.

You know? My house is going to be empty.

[Speaker 1] (1:24:08 – 1:24:09)
You know?

[Speaker 3] (1:24:09 – 1:24:27)
Little things you don’t think about. It’s all this information that you’re giving out to people. And, oh, my gosh, it’s so scary.

And it makes us look terrible. You know, the rest of us that work so hard and try to do everything right and buy the book. And, you know, we all get painted with this unfortunate paintbrush.

[Speaker 1] (1:24:28 – 1:24:43)
I’m getting a lot of speeches about this. It’s just so flabbergasted by this experience that we’ve had. And then to learn about the other experiences that other people have as well.

And this is just, you know, the tip of the iceberg. There’s more to come.

[Speaker 6] (1:24:43 – 1:24:44)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:24:45 – 1:25:11)
Well, if I could just switch gears for a minute. Sure. I just wanted to say last night’s meetup was just such a fun, fantastic time.

Because I hadn’t been out with you guys for a while. And it was just a blast meeting all those people that were there and the place that we went to. And just watching their faces on the videos as things were happening.

It was just an awesome time.

[Speaker 1] (1:25:12 – 1:26:09)
It was. It’s so nice to get together with people who want to learn about what we do. And what I really enjoy, you know, we ask people, how did you hear about this?

Why did you come to this event? And it’s so nice when we hear them say, well, you know, we’ve been thinking about this for a while. And we did some research.

And, you know, we looked at different groups or different people that were doing this. And we thought that you guys were the most, you know, reputable or the most experienced in doing this. So, you know, it’s nice to hear that.

It’s nice to hear that coming back, especially with all the knowledge we have of all the stuff that’s going on, you know, behind people’s backs and all of the, you know, the, you know, just all the stuff that we’re talking about tonight with the Paranormal Fraud. It’s nice to hear, you know, that good comment come back from the community. They did their research.

They looked into who we were. And they found out which team they wanted to go hang out with, which team they wanted to learn from.

[Speaker 4] (1:26:10 – 1:26:34)
Yeah. And a big congratulations to what you guys did to put it together. You know, everything from what the money was for to how the team interacted and took over the groups.

And that’s a huge area. I mean, we’re talking two large areas to bring people through. And you guys did a fantastic job with the organization of it.

It was smooth, very smooth.

[Speaker 1] (1:26:35 – 1:28:04)
Well, thank you. And kudos to Kat, because Kat broke up the teams and organized those teams and put those, you know, the team leaders and people to organize those groups together. So Kat, great job, as always, with that.

And she kind of managed the whole process. And, I mean, I’m not sure how many of you will note this, but that was actually a fundraiser. So every penny that people paid for last night was donated back to Cystic Fibrosis.

So, you know, the lunch and all that stuff. Exactly. Right.

So anybody else, you know, we want to get back on topic just a little bit. I mean, it was great to talk about last night. Back on topic just a little bit.

We have about 20, 18 minutes left. And we can wrap up talking about fraud. If there are any callers and listeners today to the show, definitely call in if you want to add to the comments and have any experiences you want to share.

We invite you to call 646-595-3568. 646-595-3568. And if you do call in, make sure you can see your phone number.

Don’t block your caller ID because you won’t answer the phone. So, David, you actually, you’ve been talking about, you know, some people have been coming into your shop and things you’ve been hearing that’s a little disquieting. Do you want to talk a little bit about that?

[Speaker 4] (1:28:05 – 1:28:14)
Yeah, I did have a young lady. Is this going back to the topic of discussion previous about this person? Okay, yeah, there was a…

[Speaker 1] (1:28:14 – 1:28:20)
Or about this person or about anybody in general. But, Telly, you may have a few things to talk about. So, go ahead.

[Speaker 4] (1:28:20 – 1:29:59)
Yeah, well, yeah, there have been different people coming in talking about having investigations in their homes and so-called professional investigators coming in. And they just weren’t left with a warm fuzzy feeling to the point that they never heard back from them or they got some excuse that, I don’t know, just bad excuses. And so I do my best to say that if you want a professional team, here’s the card for Maine Ghost Hunters.

Don’t confuse them with anybody else out there, even though the logos may look familiar or similar. This is the team that you want. And there was also somebody that came in and they were told that they had demons in their house by a team.

And then the team just dropped them. So they were scared to death about what was going on in their home. And we talked them through what potential things that they can do to alleviate the situation.

It wasn’t demons. It was just different things that were going on. They had to change the ways that they were doing things.

Also, you know, the young lady came in that had been befriended by the person we were talking about earlier. And I had to warn her about that. And I felt awkward doing it because you don’t want to diss anybody.

But as soon as I opened my mouth about her, she knew exactly who I was talking about and said that she had pulled away from this person. And, yeah, there’s a lot going on out there. There’s a lot of good teams out there, too, that are trying, you know, getting their feet wet.

And they’re learning as they go along. So it’s not all bad.

[Speaker 1] (1:30:00 – 1:30:35)
Right, and I think that’s a very important distinction to make. There are a lot of very good teams out there. They’re diligent about making sure who they’re working with.

They’re diligent about doing their research. They’re diligent about making sure that their clients’ homes are safe, that their numbers are safe. And, you know, they’re doing a great job moving the paranormal field forward.

And it’s unfortunate that we have to deal with people like this who see us. They see the attention that people are getting in paranormal, and they want that attention, and they see it as an avenue for their own destructive means.

[Speaker 4] (1:30:36 – 1:31:02)
Correct, yeah. And that’s the one thing about MGH, is always reach out from the very beginning to do work with other teams. And if anybody comes to the shop and asks, we will point them to the right direction.

We have passed on investigations to other teams just to put people in the busy schedule of MGH. So, you know, we’re out there to help all teams that want to help.

[Speaker 6] (1:31:03 – 1:31:04)
That’s right.

[Speaker 1] (1:31:04 – 1:32:08)
Yeah, so, I mean, definitely, if you’re concerned about people you’re working with, you know, ask them. Ask them for references. People who want paranormal investigators to come into their home, ask for references.

We have a long list. We have no problem giving you references. We have very good references.

But there are teams who, if you ask them for references, you know, due to experience or whatever, or just due to the way that they’ve dealt with their clients in the past, they won’t have them. So, you’ve got to think about that. I mean, would you let a mechanic who comes in off the street work on your car?

Would you let a dentist who had a bad reputation work on your teeth? I mean, you just need to be thinking about those things. You want to make sure who you’re working with.

And, unfortunately, in the paranormal field, there is no board. There’s no regulation. There’s no way where I can qualify.

There’s no test people take. There’s no certification. It’s self-proclaimed experience, self-proclaimability.

[Speaker 3] (1:32:08 – 1:32:47)
Oh, that reminds me. That reminds me, Tony, because the same person that we were discussing earlier, I do remember a situation where this person was offering services to certify people for a fee. So, you know, I mean, that’s another thing to be weary of is you’re correct.

There is no technical certification. There’s no board. There’s no governing body that says, you know, well, you’re qualified.

You’re not qualified. So I would be extremely weary for anyone who’s hungry out there to get into a team to not be taken in by somebody who can certify you to be a ghost hunter for a small fee.

[Speaker 1] (1:32:48 – 1:33:10)
Right. Yeah. And, yeah, it’s just, and here’s a person who, when she worked with us, had never done any ghost hunting, had never been on a paranormal investigation, and we had to continuously show her how to use her equipment when we were on our investigations.

And she’s advertising that she’s going to train you to be a ghost hunter.

[Speaker 3] (1:33:10 – 1:33:11)
That’s right.

[Speaker 1] (1:33:12 – 1:33:19)
And if you look at the article from Stanford, she’s been doing this for over a decade. We met her in 2009.

[Speaker 3] (1:33:20 – 1:33:20)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:33:21 – 1:33:29)
So I don’t know where that makes a decade, but maybe she wasn’t as good at math.

[Speaker 6] (1:33:29 – 1:33:29)
I don’t know.

[Speaker 4] (1:33:31 – 1:33:38)
I’m sorry. I was laughing at the Ms. Cleo comment in the chat room. She could be Ms. Cleo.

[Speaker 1] (1:33:38 – 1:33:41)
She could be. Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (1:33:41 – 1:33:42)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:33:42 – 1:33:55)
So just be careful, people. That’s all. Just, you know, really watch out what you’re doing, who you’re doing it with.

Any other words of advice for you guys? Would you be wise, people?

[Speaker 3] (1:33:58 – 1:34:32)
Gosh, you know, don’t jump. Take things slowly. Ask for references.

Like you said, Tony, you know, if you need the help of a team, ask for references. Ask around. You know, do your homework.

You know, look at websites and, you know, how long have you been around. Just try to get as much information as you can and get those references. So it’s really important to do your homework.

I know, you know, some clients are scared. They don’t know really who to trust, but it just takes that little extra effort.

[Speaker 1] (1:34:34 – 1:35:11)
And that’s all it is. It’s a little more effort. I mean, there are things that happen in the paranormal that are exciting, and people get, you know, they get excited.

We get excited. You know, great place, great location, lots of activity being recorded there. But you need to take a step back from that a little, you know, for a minute and say, okay, what do I need to do to prepare myself to go there?

Who am I going to be going there with? This team has contacted me. Who are they?

Who are they working with? What do they have for experience? And it can be, you know, the same thing with locations.

You need to really check the location, too, and find out is the location a reputable place to be, right?

[Speaker 3] (1:35:11 – 1:35:30)
Yeah, I mean, we do the same thing in reverse. I mean, we don’t just run to somebody just because they say they’ve got a bump in the night. I mean, you do some background with that person, you ask some questions beforehand.

There’s, you know, an interview that we do, too, because we, you know, everybody is busy and you can’t just, I mean, some things are explainable.

[Speaker 4] (1:35:32 – 1:35:53)
Yeah. I think the biggest thing, ask for references. I mean, if anybody had asked this team for references, there’s a list a mile long that could be given to them from happy clients.

And some of these other teams, I bet if you checked back with where they’ve been, not so happy clients, so don’t be afraid to ask.

[Speaker 1] (1:35:54 – 1:36:13)
Yeah, absolutely. And if you do get a team that asks you to work for them, just, you know, don’t be afraid to ask them either. You know, who have you worked with before?

What have you done for investigation? You know, tell us about, you know, some of your references for other teams you’ve worked with, some of the places you’ve been, so we know what to expect when we walk into a location with you.

[Speaker 6] (1:36:13 – 1:36:14)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:36:15 – 1:36:44)
Go ahead. I would say another thing, too, go to the team’s website. The website will tell it all.

And I know a lot of these teams that aren’t doing so well, they don’t have anything on there for evidence or anything. You know, they might have a big splashy front page, but that’s about it. And you go to the MGH page, and I mean, there’s volumes and volumes of well-documented cases and happy clients, so check out the team’s website.

[Speaker 1] (1:36:45 – 1:37:23)
Yeah, definitely. And that’s a good point. I mean, if you go to a website and there’s absolutely nothing there, and I’m not talking about anybody’s skills with a web program, because not everybody’s a web programmer, not everybody can build a website, not everybody can build a web page.

But if you go there and, you know, it looks like, you know, their eight-year-old did it with a template, and there’s been no changes to it, and there’s missing information, you know, contact us. Okay, we’ll be filled in later. Coming soon, contact us, or evidence, contact us.

You know, if it has been like that for a while, it’s a pretty telling sign that they’re someone that’s just trying to jump in and look normal, and they really may not know what they’re doing.

[Speaker 3] (1:37:24 – 1:37:51)
Right. And, you know, you can see us in action as well, because we have our YouTube channel, and we have a lot of investigation footage with us interacting with clients, you know, and you can actually see what it is that we do. We have an awful lot right there, so people can check that out also and see how it is we operate and the methods that we use.

So there’s a lot out there on us. We’re not – we’re right out there. All you’ve got to do is take a look.

[Speaker 1] (1:37:52 – 1:38:38)
Right. It’s all up there. Exactly.

It’s all up there for everybody to see. We hide nothing. We share everything.

Even though they may have a lot of evidence, you’ve also got to look at the content of that, because, you know, we’ve heard claims of, wow, I went to this location. I have, you know, tons of Class A EVPs. Well, you know, we’ve been to that location too, and there happens to be a bar directly across the street that’s open until 3 a.m. with people hanging out on the porch. So we have all kinds of Class A EVPs too. So, you know, what’s the quality? And some people may not be able to defend that on their own, so that’s why, again, references.

Ask for a reference. Don’t be afraid to ask for a reference. Would you hire somebody without checking their references?

Would you hire an employee? I wouldn’t. I’d want more than one reference.

[Speaker 4] (1:38:39 – 1:38:48)
Just be careful. Be very careful. And to any teams out there listening, put the money into your background checks.

It will save you a lot of heartache and heartbreak in the long run.

[Speaker 1] (1:38:49 – 1:39:13)
And you don’t have to pay for it. If somebody wants to be a member of your team, make sure that they don’t just want to be a member of a team. Make sure they want to be a member of your team.

And make sure they’re willing to put a little bit of skin in the game too and ask them to pay for that background check. Oh, that’s a great idea. We did that.

Wendy, did we pay for your background check?

[Speaker 3] (1:39:13 – 1:39:28)
Yes. I mean, even a professional license I had to have for the State of Maine, I had to pay for that on my own. So it’s not just paranormal.

It’s a lot of different occupations and things like that. If you want to be in it, like you said, you’ve got to put some skin in the game.

[Speaker 1] (1:39:29 – 1:39:31)
That’s right. And Wendy’s husband is a sheriff.

[Speaker 3] (1:39:34 – 1:39:47)
That’s right. I hope my fingerprints didn’t run too much fire. But, you know.

I think I got a speeding ticket once when I was really, really young. But, oh, my gosh.

[Speaker 1] (1:39:48 – 1:40:42)
We actually had someone who had applied to be a member of our team who was very straightforward. When he knew we were going to do a background, we told people. We were looking for new members.

Here’s the process. Here’s what we’re going to do. Just because you have a criminal background doesn’t disqualify you.

We want to know. We want to be prepared. We want to know who you are.

And this person told us, yeah, I trespassed when I was 21 years old. There wasn’t any major. I didn’t break in.

I just was in a place I wasn’t supposed to be. So it wasn’t like he was breaking and entering and burglarizing homes, stuff like that. And, you know, not being a member anyways because of other things, but because of his criminal background.

So it’s just important, very, very important. You can’t stress enough. Make sure you know who you are working with, period.

So, period. Can you add to that?

[Speaker 3] (1:40:44 – 1:40:51)
Well, they’re making fun of me now in the chat room because, you know, my extensive criminal history with, you know, I think I got a ticket once.

[Speaker 4] (1:40:52 – 1:40:55)
Well, I heard you were in a cemetery after dark a couple times.

[Speaker 3] (1:40:55 – 1:41:20)
Oh, my goodness. But we called for permission. We actually called for permission.

No, my husband, being the sheriff, he would strangle me if I did anything naughty. So, you know, I have to be good. And MGH does that, too.

We never trespass. We never do anything like that. It’s so hard to build a good reputation, and it’s really quick to ruin it.

[Speaker 1] (1:41:20 – 1:42:22)
Very quick, yeah. And just a couple other pointers here. So, you know, we talked about making sure you know who you’re dealing with.

Be very careful about what you ask for for identification, but make sure you get some sort of state-issued identification for people when you want to do a background check. Or ask them to go directly to the police department, and be fingerprinted. We are actually going to do fingerprinting from this point forward for anybody who gets involved with mangoes any longer, because this person that we’ve been talking about all night gave us a false name and then asked us to use another false name because she was hiding from her abusive husband.

Imagine that. Just like she told Elizabeth Perlis, I’m hiding from my abusive ex-husband who has, you know, he’s looking for me, and if he finds me he’ll kill me and my children, and my lawyers trying to work it out with him and trying to find him, yadda, yadda, yadda, yadda, yadda. So please use not this fake name I gave you, but this other fake name.

Ridiculous.

[Speaker 4] (1:42:22 – 1:42:23)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:42:24 – 1:44:11)
Yeah, so I will say it. I will just reiterate it because Elizabeth Perlis was able to identify her when she was working or when she was living with Elizabeth Perlis. She used the name Amy Morrison, A-M-Y.

First name, last name Morrison, M-O-R-R-I-S-O-N, and her current name is Amy Rodriguez, and she spells her first name differently because it’s so special in her family heritage. It’s A-I-M-E-E. Well, we have about two minutes left, and we’re just going to wrap it up.

And like I said, this is episode number one of our live guests who have firsthand experience with our, I don’t know what I want to call her, our past member who caused all the problems for us and is still kind of lingering and causing more problems. So we have other guests coming up in the very near future who have firsthand knowledge and firsthand experience that they’re going to share, and we hope you can tune in for that too. So keep an eye out for announcements of our further Paranormal Fraud series.

And thank you for attending. Thank you for listening. And we hope you found this show informative, and we hope that you have learned something from it, and we hope that you can take away from this some of the things you should do to protect you and your team and your family and your clients.

So thank you all who are on the call with me this evening, Wendy, David, John. I appreciate you coming in here and sharing your experiences as well. So you all have a good night, and we will see you in the next episode.

[Speaker 3] (1:44:12 – 1:44:13)
All right.

[Speaker 1] (1:44:13 – 1:44:13)
Good night.

[Speaker 3] (1:44:14 – 1:44:15)
Good night.