Episode Transcription
Disclaimer
Transcribed by an automatic transcription service. There are definitely errors in transcription.
Tonight we’re continuing our paranormal fraud series regarding teams in New England and across the nation who’ve had experiences or perpetrate fraud under the guise of paranormal investigation teams. We’re going to have a special guest this evening, Eric Caceres. We interviewed Eric regarding his interactions with a particular team here in New England.
(1:46 – 2:02)
And we prerecord simply so we can cut out anything without being disrespectful or naming names and things like that. So we’re going to bring in a few of the team members. We have on the line Teresa, MGH Cat, and we also have Erica on the line.
(2:02 – 2:16)
So we’re going to bring them in. We’re going to have a little quick discussion and then we’re going to jump in and let you hear our interview with Eric. Cat, are you there? I am.
Can you hear me? I can hear you. All right. Hello.
(2:16 – 2:20)
Okay, just a moment. I’m going to bring in Teresa. Right now? Hello, Teresa.
(2:21 – 2:28)
Oh, hi. All I heard was a beep. So Teresa is also here with us.
(2:28 – 2:31)
We have Cat on the line. Cat’s mic is open. Be patient.
(2:31 – 2:35)
We’re going to bring in Erica. Erica, are you there? I’m here. Excellent.
(2:36 – 2:45)
All right. The gang’s all here. So tonight’s segment is, again, like I said, it’s a continuation of our Paranormal Fraud series that we’ve been working hard on.
(2:45 – 3:14)
We’ve spent a lot of time interviewing several people across New England with a focus on paranormal fraud, their interactions with disreputable places, disreputable teams, things like that. Just trying to build some awareness and make sure that the public is well protected and knows who they’re dealing with. And tonight’s guest is Eric Caceres, and we have about a half hour of an interview that we had with him, and we’ll play that shortly.
(3:14 – 3:59)
So, Cat, do you want to lay down a little bit about why we decided to do the Paranormal Fraud series? Sure. It’s kind of an unfortunate situation, but we had an extensive amount of experience with someone with an extensive criminal history, and we were fed so many different untruths for such a long period of time that the concern right now is that this person is now leading a team, leading a group. For me, personally, as a team leader and a founder of an organization that’s been around for four years, we’ve been pretty busy throughout those four years.
(4:00 – 4:09)
I know that through our four years of being in existence, we’ve seen paranormal drama. We’ve seen it. There’s drama everywhere in every walk of life.
(4:09 – 4:29)
I get that. But there are certain situations where when people say, you need to be careful, you need to pay attention to this, when they give you hard facts, when they give you documented proof, that’s not paradrama. That is a solid, stern, real-life warning.
(4:31 – 5:05)
And in this case, with paranormal investigations, the paranormal teams, paranormal groups, paranormal investigation groups, et cetera, they’re conducting these investigations on a voluntary basis because anyone in our circle of this society that we have going on here who charges, God, I wouldn’t want to be them because they’re ostracized. So people automatically think that, well, if they’re doing it for free, they must be doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. But there are actually people who are doing it for free because they’re scoping a place out.
(5:05 – 5:26)
You know, they’re looking to do things that are not necessarily in the good nature that the rest of us are, for instance. And there are people who have extensive criminal histories to back that up. You know, people can say, oh, I don’t like this person, I don’t like that person, they were on our team, we kicked them off for whatever reason.
(5:26 – 5:45)
You know what, he said, she said. But when we remove somebody from our team because they have a criminal history longer, literally, longer than my arm, like a stack, how many pieces of paper did we print out of the printer for the criminal history that we know about, Tony? Oh, we ran out of paper. We had to go get more paper.
(5:45 – 6:07)
Really, we have so many documents outlining past behaviors of this person. And we want to be very clear, it’s not that this person, you know, had a history and then they’ve changed their ways, they’ve seen the light and become a better person now. This person is continuing the same behaviors that they were repeatedly arrested and charged and convicted of.
(6:08 – 6:21)
They actually currently have a warrant out for their arrest in another state. Unfortunately, the crime that they committed that they have a warrant for is not grand enough for that state to come to Maine to get them. Right.
(6:21 – 6:33)
So it’s not a he said, she said situation. You know, we’re keeping our ears, you know, to the Internet, our ears, you know, to the phone, anybody. I mean, we’ve had phone calls.
(6:33 – 6:40)
People call us and they’ve asked us, hey, you know, we’ve had these experiences. Is it this group? Yeah, it is. It’s this group.
(6:40 – 6:50)
It’s this leader. Yes, you’re exactly right. I mean, we don’t have to tell them, right, Tony? They come to us and say, is it this group? We have had, our clients have had this experience with this person leading this group.
(6:50 – 7:05)
Is this the group? Yeah, that’s correct. And we have, as I said, we have several interviews from other paranormal teams and organizations throughout New England who have had very similar experiences to each other. So it’s not just us making it up.
(7:05 – 7:14)
It’s people in the public, people who are doing what we’re trying to do, which is help people in need. Right. Experiencing these same issues.
(7:14 – 7:31)
Right. And the thing that gets me is, the thing that gets me is that they are shielding themselves or trying to. I don’t follow them around, but I have been told from other groups that they’re like, they’re promoting themselves as para-unity, para-unity, para-unity.
(7:32 – 7:44)
And I’m thinking, of all of the things to hide behind, that’s probably one of the things that, it’s a catchphrase. People don’t mess with para-unity. I don’t believe in para-unity.
(7:44 – 7:54)
Why? Because this group is hiding behind para-unity and other people are protecting them. They have no idea who they’re protecting. They don’t understand.
(7:54 – 8:03)
What they think is para-unity is everybody gets along, everybody loves each other, everybody’s going for the same thing, right? Well, yeah, some people are going for the same thing. Not everybody. Not everybody.
(8:03 – 8:21)
And, I mean, they’re just the last, she is the last person you want roaming in your house when you’re not there. And I think that this interview here is going to highlight that point and a couple of others. What do you think, Tony? Yeah, I completely agree.
(8:21 – 8:49)
This is, in particular, one of those locations where, you know, the client had an interaction with this team and it was not a pleasant interaction, and, you know, this team came in and was very disrespectful to the location and something was missing at the end of the night. It wasn’t recognized until a few days later, but it was something that the director of the team had shown a great interest in. So, yeah, no spoilers.
(8:49 – 8:59)
You’re right. So let’s kick it off. Let’s play the episode, the recorded segment, unless Erica or Teresa, do you have anything you want to add? Nope.
(9:00 – 9:04)
I think she said it. You said it very well. I agree, too.
(9:05 – 9:12)
All right, great. All right, so what I’m going to do is I’m going to mute your microphones. We’re just going to play the segment, so there’s no need to hang on the line if you don’t want to.
(9:12 – 9:14)
Save your minutes. Save your time. Save your ears.
(9:15 – 9:26)
And then in 29 minutes, or 28 minutes, actually, because it’s about 29 minutes long, so ring back in about a minute early, and we’ll jump back in and we’ll discuss what Erica has to say. Sound good? Sounds good. Yep.
(9:27 – 9:30)
Excellent. All right, guys, we’ll talk to you shortly. Okay.
(9:31 – 9:46)
All right, folks, so here we go. This is the segment that we recorded with Eric Casares, and he’s going to talk a little bit about his interactions or his client’s interactions. The client contacted him to have him come into a paranormal investigation, and he’s going to talk about what happened.
(9:47 – 9:53)
So without further ado, here’s Eric. So how are you doing tonight? Very good. Good.
(9:54 – 10:07)
How have things been going for you and your team down there? We are extremely busy, very busy, overloaded busy, if you want to call it that. I know the feeling. We’ve been getting investigation requests left and right.
(10:08 – 10:35)
All right, well, I just want to start a few ground rules here. What I want to try and do is just like our whole purpose for these shows and what we’re trying to do is just build awareness as to people should really know who they’re inviting into their home, who they’re starting to hang around with, and things like that. Maybe we can start with you can tell me a little bit about where you’re from and a little bit about your team and how you got started.
(10:35 – 11:04)
Well, our group name is Persona Paranormal Research, and we recently changed the name to Persona Paranormal Research. It was originally called Paranormal Society of North Attleboro, but we wanted to get away from really the town name, and we do a lot of research historically, so that’s why we decided to change that name to that research ending, if you will. Okay.
(11:04 – 11:40)
So we were established and founded in October of 2010, and we’re right now eight members, but we’re not a very large group. And we are searching out new investigators, and we recently came across another fellow investigator that’s involved with another group that may be switching to our group just because we’re more local to that person, which is great. So we’re going to see how that goes.
(11:40 – 12:17)
We have an investigation coming up this Friday, and we’re going to try that person on that investigation. We’ve been involved with all different kinds of investigations, all started with a little cemetery, as I think most investigators do, and we work from there and do a lot of residential. Now, as far as myself, I’ve had paranormal experiences probably since the age of five years old, and my sister is a professional astrologist, and that’s probably where I get it from.
(12:19 – 13:06)
And she’s, I think, taught me things over the years that have enhanced my abilities, if you will, just sensing, but I’m not going to call myself a psychic or I’m not a medium, but from time to time I definitely have those senses. And I think some people that are involved with paranormal groups certainly have that as well, but I will certainly never call myself a psychic. I’m a little skeptical of mediums and psychics, but we did recently work with Kelly Spangler out of Salem, Mass., and she actually helped us with a case and kind of blew me away a little bit, but she was able to tell us stuff that was incredible.
(13:07 – 13:16)
She wasn’t given the location of where we were going to investigate. She wasn’t given the homeowner’s name. She wasn’t given any information.
(13:17 – 14:00)
Now, we already had investigated this place a few times, and there was a case that was becoming spiritual, if you will, so we had to try to bring in somebody else to try to see if there was another avenue or if we were correct in what we were thinking, and some of what she had mentioned to us confirmed that, and so we actually brought it another step further and brought the father, Bob Bailey, into the investigation. Some people may have seen him on TV, so he’s very well known. In everything so far, knock on wood, it turned out pretty good.
(14:01 – 14:26)
That case lasted about a year. Now, was Bob Bailey able to corroborate a lot of the information that was given to you by the other sidekick? Well, he went in there for that one period to help us cleanse the home and liberate the home. Was he able to actually figure out whether or not a lot of those things were going on? Not that night he was in there, no.
(14:26 – 14:45)
All right, well, let’s talk a little bit about how you came to contact Main Ghost Hunters regarding some of the paranormal fraud that we’ve been advertising on Facebook and on our blog talk radio shows. All right, can you hear me a little better now? Oh, absolutely. Okay, good.
(14:46 – 15:22)
I’m just going to put this other microphone away. So yeah, so what I was saying is Main Ghost Hunters is very diligent and we advertise quite a bit about a certain team in New England and a certain member of a team in New England who we, based on our experiences, believes we’re misrepresenting ourselves and taking advantage of people in the paranormal community as well as people seeking help from the paranormal community. I just wanted to, in this radio show, talk a little bit about how you came to get in contact with us.
(15:22 – 15:47)
Was it one of our Facebook postings or a radio show that you heard? Yeah, I believe it was one of your Facebook postings on paranormal fraud, and I started reading up on it a little bit, and it just kind of clicked a little bit on what happened with one of our cases. That’s when I got in touch with you in regard to that. And so the two together, it seemed like it was the same group.
(15:47 – 16:45)
So I did contact the homeowners thereafter, and I spoke with them and asked them who that particular group was and also asked them who the lead person was of that group, and they gave out that certain name and that certain group name, and it sounds exactly like the same group that was mentioned on one of your broadcasts. Now, why did this person, if these people had already had an investigation in their location, why did they reach out to contact you? Well, what happened was, this probably goes back a year, almost about the same time I was talking about the other case, but they had contacted us, and for some reason, they went with this other group. Now, this other group had tied to a group in Rhode Island as well.
(16:45 – 17:10)
Apparently, they’re doing a lot of networking. So I don’t know if it was exactly the homeowner that knew somebody that knew somebody, but they decided to go with that group for some reason, and that particular group went in, and it was two groups that went in, actually. And I don’t think the group out of Rhode Island even knows what’s going on, to be honest with you.
(17:10 – 17:21)
But the two groups went in. Unfortunately, the homeowner said they were very unprofessional. They left a mess.
(17:22 – 17:30)
They were playing video games during the investigation on the computer. They weren’t focused in on the investigation. I just wanted to interject.
(17:30 – 17:52)
So they were playing video games on the client’s computer? No, not on the… No. They were… Apparently, they had set up a detached garage, as we did as well, and the investigators, rather than focusing in on… I don’t know what they had set up. I don’t know if they had a DVR set up.
(17:53 – 18:07)
Apparently, they did, according to the homeowners, but why were they playing video games on that computer? Maybe they had set that up. I’m not sure. They weren’t focused in on the investigation, according to what the homeowners were telling us.
(18:07 – 18:21)
And they were not… The homeowners were not allowed to participate in the investigation. And that’s where that concerned me, because we always allow homeowners to participate. It’s their house.
(18:21 – 18:27)
We’re going into their house. They don’t know us, so… Absolutely. You know, there’s a trust factor there.
(18:28 – 18:43)
Now, if that was me, as a homeowner, yeah, I don’t think I want people coming into my home without me being there and watching what they’re doing. Right. But for them to do that was surprising, but they allowed it to happen.
(18:44 – 18:59)
They regret it now, but they had activity, and several months went by. They weren’t getting any information from them. They finally contacted us, and they wanted to know what was going on in their home.
(18:59 – 19:09)
And they really didn’t tell us too much about the other group. They just said, we had another group come in, and they really haven’t done anything for us. They haven’t shown us any evidence.
(19:09 – 19:25)
They say they have evidence, but they haven’t done anything. So they asked us to go in and redo the whole thing and go in and help them out, which we did. We set it up pretty quickly, I think, from what I remember, within a couple of weeks anyway.
(19:26 – 19:36)
Great people, great, great people. They treated us well, and we did the same right back to them, and we also tried to educate them as well. Okay.
(19:37 – 19:55)
But what we later found out regarding the fraudulent activities is that the group apparently took something of theirs, which they were totally unaware of. They didn’t realize this until after the fact. Okay.
(19:56 – 19:59)
I want to ask a few questions. We’ll get into that in just a minute. I want to ask a few more questions.
(19:59 – 20:18)
So some of the homeowners were not allowed to participate in the investigation. Did they actually ask the homeowners to vacate the home while they did the investigation? They didn’t ask them to vacate the home. They just asked them to stay in the detached garage with the rest of the group that has the base camp, if you want to call it that.
(20:18 – 20:35)
And then two or three would enter the home and do whatever they were doing in the home, but the homeowners were told they can’t go in while they were investigating. Okay. So was it just a husband and wife? Yes, it was a husband and wife.
(20:35 – 20:59)
All right. So they were asked to stay in the detached garage where this team or these teams had set up their home base, if you will, and while the clients are out there in the garage, the team is playing video games on their computers. Yes, basically a group of people in the garage and another two or three in the home supposedly investigating.
(20:59 – 21:31)
All right. How many people did they bring altogether to the investigation? Do you know? I believe it was approximately nine or ten. They thought there were too many of them, and it’s true because it is a small home, and every time we actually interview a client, we take a look at the size and we make a determination on how many people we bring in, and for this size home, no more than four or five in my opinion.
(21:31 – 21:40)
All right. So we actually had brought in five, I believe, on the first investigation ourselves. Okay.
(21:41 – 22:03)
Now, what were some of the initial reports of activity there? Typical knocks and bangs, footsteps, hearing voices, and seeing apparitions, black shadows, the typical paranormal stuff that you hear about all the time. Yes. Nothing crazy, nothing demonic or anything like that.
(22:04 – 22:33)
So at the point in time when your client contacted this other team or these other teams to come in and do the investigation, were they afraid of any of the activity? Were they concerned for their well-being or their health in any way? The homeowners definitely, they’ve never experienced before, so they were concerned. They were wondering. They were somewhat nervous about what was going on, and they wanted answers, and they also possibly wanted whatever was there out.
(22:34 – 22:45)
Some people tend to think that paranormal activity is bad. Well, not all paranormal activity is bad. It’s just something that lingers and is residual.
(22:46 – 22:50)
So they just wanted answers. They didn’t know what was going on. Yeah.
(22:52 – 23:32)
Now, you mentioned that they spent one evening there, two different teams spent one evening there doing an investigation, and during the investigation, the homeowners were not allowed in their own home, and they would take teams of two or three people and go into the house and switch off to conduct their investigations. When the team left, did they give your clients any indication as to when they would be back in touch with them or any indication as to what they had found when they were there? From what I remember the homeowners telling me is that they will get back to them, and that’s all they said. So they didn’t share any information with them at all before they left? It was just like, okay, we’re done, we’re going to go home, and we’ll be in touch with you? Correct.
(23:33 – 23:47)
Okay. Now, you had mentioned that this client had discovered something had gone missing from their home a few days or after a period of time at a lapse. They recognized that something was missing.
(23:47 – 24:04)
Right. And it was an older antique item, and they don’t even know what the value is of this, but it was still something that was left from the previous homeowner. And, you know, apparently the other group thought it had some value.
(24:04 – 24:14)
They took it. That’s my opinion. But the homeowner found out later, and they questioned the group about it, and they said, you know, we’re missing this item.
(24:14 – 24:29)
And they said, oh, yeah, well, we took that item because we felt it had something to do with the case, so we need to take it. And the homeowners asked for it back, and, of course, to this day, they have not received it back. And so that definitely upsets them quite a bit.
(24:29 – 24:39)
Yeah. Now, you mentioned it as an old antique. Can you disclose what the item was? I can’t recall actually myself what it was.
(24:39 – 25:14)
I don’t know if it really did have any significance to it, but it was just because the thought was it was theirs, and they took it from their home. Eventually, the homeowners had pressed the group so much for evidence because the group had said they had evidence. Finally, the group had sent some pictures by e-mail to them, and we were already in contact with the homeowners, and we were already prepared to go in and investigate.
(25:14 – 25:31)
And the wife actually borrowed me some of the pictures. I took a look at some of these pictures, and I was amazed to see what I saw. In my opinion, it was nothing but Photoshopped junk.
(25:35 – 25:54)
So it’s not just that the photos were bad judgment of paranormal evidence. It’s that the photos looked like they had actually been doctored to make it look like they had activity in them? Absolutely. And I did show it to the rest of the group, our group, and got their opinions.
(25:54 – 26:29)
I think every single one of our group members that don’t even have some background in photography, but knew that it was Photoshopped, it basically looked like somebody took a black marker to a picture. But with the Photoshopping editor and everything that you can do, and put a smoky look into one of the pictures or two of the pictures, it was unbelievable. I just couldn’t believe that they did that.
(26:31 – 26:45)
Now there were two teams that came to the house, two separate teams. One was from the main area, and the other one was from the Rhode Island area. Which team was your client most in contact with? The main group.
(26:46 – 26:56)
So it was the main group who had scheduled the appointment, came down and conducted the investigation as far as your client was concerned. So they were kind of running the show. Correct.
(26:57 – 27:13)
And they left, said they would get back in touch with your client, and never did. And so your client was in contact with the main group, and they kept insisting on getting some sort of evidence or something from what they had done when they were there doing the investigation. Right, exactly.
(27:14 – 27:22)
And the main group forwarded on these photos to your client? Yes. All right. Via email.
(27:23 – 27:35)
Via email, okay. Now was your client familiar with the situation that there were two separate teams, and that one was from the local area and one was not? Yes. Now whether or not they knew that right in the beginning, I don’t know.
(27:35 – 27:51)
I never actually asked them that. But they actually told me the other group’s name, the second group’s name. Of course, I won’t release that name either because, you know, that group may have just been involved because it was an investigation and they were asked to come in.
(27:51 – 28:12)
I’m not sure why. But like I said, that main group, of course, does a lot of networking and is just trying to add more and more groups to their name, if you will, and try to get larger and larger. And it’s just unbelievable what they’re doing.
(28:13 – 28:38)
Yeah. Now, speaking of that, was this team considered one of their branch teams or their branch members? Because that’s the way they advertise it. So you’re right, they go into these different areas or they write someone a Facebook mail and say, hey, do you want to be a branch member of our organization? And if they say yes, then they add them to their website and all of a sudden they have a team in this state and this town.
(28:39 – 28:50)
So do you know if they were ever identified on this team’s website as a branch? Yes, they were. I actually identified it myself. I confirmed it.
(28:50 – 28:58)
I went and checked it out, and yes, it was. Okay. And do you know if they still are? I have not looked as of late.
(28:59 – 29:24)
I’m going to guess that they are. All right. So you had also, when we talked earlier, when we talked before, you had mentioned that during the investigation, the topic of this item that disappeared or went missing was actually raised by the person we have a concern for or about while they were there at the location.
(29:27 – 29:53)
Yes, yes, yes. So the topic was raised that this item may be causing some of the activity in the home and that they actually asked if they could take it. Is that correct? Well, from what I remember, they took it automatically without their knowledge, and later when the homeowner had talked to them over the phone, that’s when they admit they took it.
(29:53 – 30:11)
Okay. And that, yes, that was causing some paranormal activity, and that’s the reason why they need to take it with them. So your client contacted the people that she thought was in charge of the investigation that was conducted at their home.
(30:12 – 30:49)
Yes, I think according to what I was told, the homeowners were stunned that they actually, what do you mean, why did you take it? What’s the reason for you taking it? All right. And they didn’t, did they offer to send it back or the client asked for it and they still have not received it? Yes, basically our clients asked if they could send it back, and that group said they would, and to this day they have not received it. And they asked them several times, we want it back, we want it back, and they never sent it back.
(30:50 – 31:14)
And while they were looking for getting the evidence, this had gone on beyond three months at this point where they didn’t receive any evidence from them, or any kind of contact, they would ignore their phone calls. They were getting extremely rude to them. The group was getting extremely rude to the homeowners on the phone, and eventually they weren’t even taking their phone calls.
(31:16 – 31:40)
All right. So let’s focus a little bit on the behavior of the item disappearing. We actually, not long before you contacted us with your story of your interactions with this client and this client’s interactions with this paranormal team, we actually got a call from another team, and I want to say it’s a similar situation.
(31:40 – 31:58)
It was a similar situation. This team had gone into this location and conducted an investigation, and they did what they do, and then they left. And a few days later, the owner of the location discovered something was missing.
(32:00 – 32:17)
And this, again, was an item that probably had some significant value, given the location, and was antique and was pertinent to the location. It was part of the ambience and part of the location. It should have been there.
(32:17 – 32:24)
It should have stayed there. It had a lot of meaning to this location. It’s something that you would know if it’s misplaced.
(32:25 – 32:31)
It should be on a shelf or it should be in a certain location. You know it’s there. Right.
(32:33 – 32:42)
Right. Excuse me. This team also claims to have liability insurance and be bonded and insured.
(32:42 – 32:52)
So if they did break something in someone’s home, their insurance should be able to pay for that. Well, okay. Now I wasn’t aware they actually had insurance.
(32:53 – 33:00)
Right on the front page of their website, they claim to be bonded and insured. Oh, really? Yes. Yeah.
(33:01 – 33:04)
Our group is not. We’re not insured. We’re not bonded.
(33:04 – 33:12)
But we have a waiver that states that right on the waiver that we are not insured. We’re not bonded. Yeah.
(33:15 – 33:24)
But it’s difficult. You know, when you’re a local group like this, where do you come up with the money? Yeah. No, I agree.
(33:25 – 33:42)
I mean, insurance is expensive for anybody. I mean, home insurance, the type of work that we do, insurance for going into people’s homes or historical collections or being around antiques and other people’s belongings, insurance for that is not cheap. Right.
(33:42 – 34:04)
Exactly. Yeah. Now let’s talk about how you have dealt with the client and this instance with this team and how you have communicated with them regarding your knowledge of what they do and how they’ve conducted themselves.
(34:05 – 34:20)
Well, as far as the homeowner, they’re very busy people, and they have activity. I will have to admit they have activity. And so we just comfort them with that part of it.
(34:25 – 34:46)
Now, you know, we’re kind of focused on our kind of hometown area as mingle centers. You know, we’re really protective of our community. We’re really protective of the people that we work with, both paranormal investigation teams for events and investigations as well as our past clients and potential clients for the public.
(34:47 – 35:19)
Can you speak a little bit about, you know, things like what we have experienced here with this team and individual that may have occurred in areas around you and how that may have impacted, you know, the public’s view on paranormal investigation teams in general doing paranormal work in the public? I’m sorry. Can you repeat some of that because you broke up again? Okay, sure. We’ll start over again.
(35:19 – 35:40)
As mingle centers, we’re pretty focused on our local area, right? We’re very protective of our communities. We’re very protective of our, you know, the people that we partner with or work with on a regular basis. We’re also very protective of our clients who have asked us for help and trusted that we will do the right thing when we come into their home.
(35:40 – 36:37)
So we’re very vocal about, you know, certain individuals in our area who we don’t think have that same focus. And are you – have there been any incidents similar to what we have shared with this individual in your local area? And if so, can you speak a little bit about how that may have impacted, you know, the general public’s perception of paranormal teams or paranormal investigation teams in general as well as psychics and, you know, how they conduct themselves? Well, you know, we’ve been fortunate, I guess, to say that we haven’t run into any issues with any other paranormal groups in this area and hope we don’t run into any issues. We have worked with the Taunton Paranormal Group, which they’re also involved with Father Bob Bailey as well.
(36:38 – 36:48)
And, you know, we work great together and we respect each other. They helped us out with the Humlin case. And again, Kelly Spangler helped us out with that as well.
(36:49 – 37:03)
We’ve never had any issues with any other groups. We will actually be going up to your neck of the woods at the end of the month with the place that you actually investigated. It’s actually a friend of mine.
(37:03 – 37:17)
I think I had mentioned this to you as well. And it’s somewhat a little bit of a little retreat, if you want to call it that, slash investigation. So we’re going to make a weekend thing out of it.
(37:17 – 37:42)
But I think we try to be cautious of who we get involved with and try to listen to certain issues that are out there and be forward with everybody in what we do and how we handle things. That’s a good approach. So if you’re planning to come up here in Maine, maybe you should give us a, you know, if you want to stop by or get together and have some coffee or something at some point while you’re here.
(37:42 – 37:49)
That would be great. Absolutely. Definitely once we get off, you know, we can definitely discuss that.
(37:49 – 37:51)
That would be great. Awesome. All right.
(37:51 – 38:15)
Well, thank you, Eric, for joining us this evening and being willing to speak on the air about, you know, your experiences with this individual and how it’s impacted your client. We think that this will be valuable for people who will hear this broadcast. And like I said, we just want to help build awareness and keep our fellow members of the paranormal community aware of what’s going on and keep themselves safe.
(38:15 – 38:47)
And if you would, just go ahead and give a shout-out for your website and any contact information you want to share for your local area, how people can get in touch with you and ask for your help. Well, thanks, Tony. And our website is persona-paranormal, which is psona-paranormal.com. And we can also be contacted through our email, which is persona-paranormal at gmail.com. And, again, that’s psona.
(38:49 – 39:00)
And we can also be reached at persona at comcast.net. Excellent. All right, good. Well, again, thank you very much, Eric, and we look forward to speaking to you again.
(39:00 – 39:04)
And hopefully we’ll get a chance to catch up while you’re up here in Maine. All right. Very good.
(39:04 – 39:06)
Thank you for having me. All right. Thanks.
(39:06 – 39:13)
You have a good night. Wow. I mean, I really can’t say anything else but wow.
(39:13 – 39:49)
You know, I’ve spoken with Eric several times prior to the interview, after the interview, during the interview, and it still just amazes me that this person has the audacity to present herself in the manner that she does and then conduct herself in the manner that she does when she gets into these private personal homes and public historic locations. We’re going to play a couple commercials real quick, and then we’re going to come back. We’re going to bring the rest of the team back in, and we’re going to talk about Eric’s interview, and we’re going to talk a little bit about, you know, other efforts we’re doing and just paranormal fraud in general.
(39:49 – 40:05)
So we’ll be right back. The Maine Ghost Hunters media team is looking for new and interesting stories to share. If you’re in the local New England area and you’d like to share your story in person, we may be interested in interviewing you for a possible showcase piece on our media team website.
(40:06 – 41:11)
Contact Maine Ghost Hunters by phone at 207-504-6224 or send email to MaineGhostHunters at MaineGhostHunters.org. Got ghosts? Maybe we can help. Call the MGH Ghost Phone at 207-504-6224 or send email to MaineGhostHunters at MaineGhostHunters.org. Would you like to know what it’s like to be a Maine Ghost Hunter? See us live and in action on our YouTube video channel located at www.youtube.com slash MaineGhostHunters. Okay, and welcome back to Maine Ghost Hunters Presents Zero Lux Radio.
(41:12 – 41:37)
Again, tonight is Wednesday, August 15th, and we are continuing on with our paranormal fraud series. We just finished up a prerecorded interview with Eric Caceres, and we’re about to bring in Cat, John, Teresa, and Eric. And we’re just going to have a little discussion with Eric and his enlightenment that he gave us during that interview as well as maybe some of the other information that you may have heard or may not have heard in some of our past interviews.
(41:37 – 41:41)
So we’ll start with Cat. Hello. Hello.
(41:42 – 41:57)
Hi, Tony, you’re occasionally really sputtering pretty significantly. All right, well, maybe I’ll slow down my speech and see if that helps. I’m going to bring in Teresa.
(41:58 – 42:04)
Hey, Teresa, welcome back. Hello. All right, and Erica.
(42:04 – 42:10)
Erica, are you there? I’m still here. Okay, great. And John, I don’t know if John wants to talk to us.
(42:10 – 42:14)
I think he’s walking around Home Depot still. No, he’s home. Okay, great.
(42:14 – 42:18)
John, you there? Yeah, I’m here. All right, great. So the gang’s all here.
(42:19 – 42:39)
Again, welcome back, everybody. And, you know, like I said, there’s nothing else I can really say about that interview. But, wow, just every time I think about what this person does, how she presents herself, and … Well, Tony, you brought up a good point, and I’d really like to capitalize on it before I forget, because you know I forget really quickly.
(42:40 – 42:56)
You made a point earlier, right before the commercial, about how she does these things, how she does present herself. And you and I both know that she presents herself in a very charismatic, very likable kind of way. I mean, she really is.
(42:56 – 43:15)
She’s got this whole air about her. I mean, I thought she was like a really nice person. And the fact of the matter is that I would not be taken by or be friends with a toothless hag with bad manners, you know, bad personal hygiene.
(43:15 – 43:24)
I wouldn’t be attracted to that type of person as a friend. Do you know what I mean? Absolutely, yes. Okay, so clients aren’t going to be taken by people who look like crooks.
(43:25 – 43:36)
They’re going to be taken by people who are extremely charismatic, very nice, very convincing. I’m going to help you. I’m going to do whatever I can to stay out in your garage, to make sure you don’t come in, you don’t want to be in here.
(43:36 – 43:45)
It’s not a good place to be. And she’s in there doing whatever she’s doing. And they walked off with whatever that piece of whatever that was that they took.
(43:46 – 44:02)
You know, and I’m sure it’s confidential between Eric and his client. We didn’t press the matter. But I do want to reiterate that when you got off the phone with him the first time, you made it clear that she was attracted to whatever that was.
(44:02 – 44:12)
And she asked about it repeatedly, and they told her no. She kept telling them, that’s the root of your problem, let me take it, and your problems are solved. And they were like, no, no.
(44:12 – 44:17)
And she addressed it a couple times. All right. They turned their back.
(44:17 – 44:25)
They trusted her and her team, and when the team left, that item was gone. It’s despicable. It is despicable.
(44:25 – 44:39)
And it’s the fact that, like you said, she’s very charismatic. She’s very, very likable the way she presents herself until you get to know who she really is. And she’s just very kind of domineering in those types of situations.
(44:39 – 44:44)
And she just kind of swoops right in. And she’s here to rescue you. She’s here to save you.
(44:44 – 44:57)
She’s here to provide you with the protection and healing that you need because she’s this grand psychic. And people who are in need, they are drawn to that. I mean, that’s what they want.
(44:57 – 45:05)
They want someone to come in and help them and take care of them and protect them and make them feel better and take care of all of their problems. Yeah. I mean, all that’s important.
(45:05 – 45:23)
But one of the most important things, especially if you think you have something in your house that you can’t see and you can’t hear and you don’t know is there until it makes itself known, you want somebody in your house who knows more than you do. You want somebody who says they can see those things. They can hear those things.
(45:23 – 45:34)
You need them. That’s who she is. Because she’s a very prolific, you know, what were we told, 14th generation psychic? Yeah.
(45:34 – 45:46)
Really, 14th generation, straight down the line? That’s what she told me. That’s what she wrote in her bio that we had up on our website for the entire time that she was with us. Isn’t it? It is.
(45:47 – 46:08)
Yep. So she had a lot of grandiose claims and a lot of delusions as to who she was and where she came from. And as in being a 14th generation psychic, it may not sound like a very significant deception, but it’s just one of the many things that we learned to be a lie as we found out who this person really was.
(46:09 – 46:26)
Well, when you consider that the person has an extensive criminal history of theft by deception, those are the charges that she was found guilty of, it is a big deal. Because she’s stealing from people by deceiving them. Yes.
(46:27 – 46:43)
And she’s just using a different tool to do that. So, I mean, you know, and I know Teresa is just, I mean, she was talking about her, you know, just being, like, beyond upset to hear. Because this is the first time that our team has heard that this team was in a client’s house and they stole something.
(46:44 – 46:49)
Oh, that’s right. They weren’t on that interview, were they? No, they weren’t. Ask Teresa how she feels about it.
(46:50 – 47:15)
Teresa, how do you feel about that? You know, in my job, you know, my regular everyday job, I’m in people’s houses every day because, you know, I work with families. And I couldn’t imagine violating the trust that these people have by stealing stuff out of their house. It just blows my mind.
(47:17 – 47:28)
Yeah, it’s just amazing. What’s amazing to us is that she had the audacity to come back to this area after she left. She actually left Maine at one point in time and went to the West Coast.
(47:29 – 47:38)
It’s just amazing that she had the audacity to come back into our community and take up where she left off and continue these behaviors. And this is the result. Yeah.
(47:39 – 48:01)
And that, you know, I mean, and we’re all, I think something that upsets me, too, is that, you know, we’re all out there and we’re all striving, you know, to make this a credible field. And to make, you know, what we do and what we believe in and that, you know, mean something. And then you have people who go and do stuff like that and just take all that credibility away.
(48:02 – 48:09)
No kidding. It’s hard for you to get to do anything, to go anywhere, you know. That’s the truth.
(48:09 – 48:33)
And what kind of misunderstanding could there be? I mean, you know, Eric said, well, the client noticed that the thing was gone and it’s the very thing that she asked about and was like, okay, well, where’s this thing? Let’s call and find out, first of all, are you going to bring evidence for it? Yes, we are. Okay, where’s the thing? Did you take that after we told you not to? Yeah, we did. It really felt strongly that we had to take it.
(48:34 – 48:43)
Well, we asked you not to take it. Can we have it back? Yeah, well, I guess, yeah, you can have it back. How many times did they ask, Tony? More than they should have.
(48:43 – 48:50)
I mean, asking once is more than enough, but I think it was several times. I don’t think Eric gave us an actual count, but it was several times. They’ve called.
(48:50 – 49:03)
They’ve left messages. They spoke with them, and it got to the point where they got, you know, this team got irritated with the client for calling them and continuing to ask them for this item back. Yeah, for the item that was there that they told them not to take.
(49:04 – 49:18)
I mean, they don’t even need a reason why they would need to, you know, why they should be asking for it. I mean, they just don’t need a reason to ask for it back. But he did say, what, three months later, and they still haven’t received, what, evidence over the thing back? Right.
(49:18 – 49:29)
And they’ve never seen the item again. Yep. I do not know what kind of explanation could go down that would make that acceptable, still, that they took it in the first place.
(49:29 – 49:32)
They could return it today. It wouldn’t matter. They took it.
(49:33 – 49:39)
She took it. You know, we could put this live, and tomorrow they could return it. It wouldn’t matter.
(49:39 – 49:45)
You walked out of a client’s house with a client’s possession. You stole. That’s your character.
(49:46 – 49:50)
Exactly. Yeah. Wait, wait, wait.
(49:51 – 50:05)
I’m going to roll one second. Does it not tick you guys off that they were up for a humanitarian of the year award for these New England awards that went down a few months ago? Humanitarian. That means giving.
(50:07 – 50:22)
They’re not in a client’s home stealing, and they’re up for an award for giving to the community, and they’re under the guise of paranormal unity. Does that not tick anyone else off? Oh, completely. Can you imagine if they would have won that award? They’re not stealing.
(50:24 – 50:28)
Yeah, Tony. Yeah. Calm down.
(50:28 – 50:30)
Deep breath. Deep breath. Yeah, calm down.
(50:30 – 50:41)
Have a glass of water. No, I completely agree, but what’s more disturbing is this is not an isolated incident. This is not a one-time occurrence.
(50:42 – 50:53)
No, we have other shows, don’t we? Yes, we have lots of other shows. This is repeated, continuous behavior, and her behavior is not just impacting the clients that she’s going to. It’s not just impacting her team members.
(50:53 – 51:16)
It’s impacting other teams because her behaviors in certain public locations have now impacted the accessibility of those locations to other teams because of things that she has done and things that have gone missing at those locations. Yeah, her team leadership has trickled down, and her entire team has. Whoever was there, we don’t know.
(51:17 – 51:23)
We just know that they were there. Their behaviors under her leadership because she was there. She was a contact.
(51:23 – 51:51)
She was there, and whatever it is that went down was negative enough that it has impacted everybody in the paranormal community. It has literally ruined at least one location, one prime location. Was that not a juicy location? It was an awesome location, and we were actually invited to go there and participate in a paranormal investigation by people who are, you know, are very close with the management of that location.
(51:52 – 52:17)
But in our interview with this other paranormal team who was familiar with the incident, they let us know under no uncertain terms that the way that those paranormal investigations are operated now are completely different. They’re supervised now when they used to not be supervised. There is a huge several hundred dollar security deposit people need to pay in order to get access to that location.
(52:18 – 52:24)
It’s almost an obstacle to the point where normal teams would not be able to pay it. You know that. We all know that.
(52:24 – 52:48)
Because several hundred dollars, I mean, that’s like, who has that kind of money? Exactly. I mean, it’s just ridiculous. So, like I said, it’s to the point where it’s restrictive, and, you know, people who are trying to get ahead in this field, people who are trying to learn their way in this field genuinely will no longer be able to participate in that and take advantage of that location.
(52:49 – 52:59)
Sure. I have a question. Now, I know the person that you’re talking about, obviously.
(53:03 – 53:27)
She’s got a record in other states. Does she actually have a criminal record in Maine now? Well, under the aliases that we know her to use when she’s in Maine, we have not been able to find anything. But that doesn’t mean that one of her other aliases that we are not familiar with, you know, it doesn’t mean she doesn’t have a record under those names.
(53:27 – 53:38)
Yeah, I mean, it’s sad to say that she literally has so many aliases. I mean, how many names did we come up with? It was around ten. Ten different names.
(53:39 – 53:48)
I couldn’t even believe. There were two names that she used that I just couldn’t even believe. I’m like, are you kidding me? This doesn’t even, I mean, oh, my God.
(53:49 – 54:12)
I mean, we have no idea how many names she’s using. So, basically, she’s obviously still pretending to be other people, and she has this criminal record, but nobody’s able to find her, and she still gets this humanitarian award. It’s not that nobody’s able to find her.
(54:12 – 54:18)
She has a criminal history. She has convictions. She’s been charged, convicted, not paid fines.
(54:19 – 54:26)
She has outstanding fines that she didn’t pay, and some of the courts just said we’re done. We’re tired. We’re not going to go after this anymore.
(54:27 – 55:00)
But there is a state. There’s at least one county in another state where actually my investigation into her, because of my querying them and trying to find out more information about them, they actually reissued a warrant that they had recalled because she had unpaid fines, and she didn’t complete the terms of her sentencing, and so they issued a warrant for her arrest. And when she wasn’t around to arrest, the offense that she was convicted of and charged with was a misdemeanor, so they won’t go out of the state for that.
(55:01 – 55:11)
So, at least she goes back to the state where the arrest warrant is. They will arrest her, but they won’t come here to get her. They won’t come here to arrest her.
(55:11 – 55:29)
They know where she is because they reissued that warrant, and they found out where she was, and they contacted her, and she made arrangements. She made an arrangement, lied to the judge, said she’d make payments on these fines, and yada, yada, yada, just pull away the warrant. He did that.
(55:30 – 55:40)
She sent along like $20 in her letter to the judge. The judge did that, but he said that if you don’t continue with this payment arrangement, we’re going to issue the warrant again. Well, sure enough, she didn’t pay any more payments.
(55:41 – 55:53)
That was last year. No, that was, what, two years ago? That was over, yeah, that was like two years ago, and that warrant still hasn’t been paid, and it’s not, you could have paid that within two years. You can find it.
(55:53 – 56:03)
Anybody can find it online. That’s incredible. Yeah, the truth is anyone can go to those two, at least two of the states.
(56:03 – 56:10)
They go right online and find her criminal history right there, right online. It’s all readily available. It’s all public.
(56:10 – 56:13)
It’s not, you know, confidential. It’s all right there. Okay.
(56:14 – 56:28)
So basically these other states don’t really have enough resources to be able to go and —- No, no, no. It’s not that they don’t have the resources. They have to follow certain rules, and the rules say, you know, we’re not going to spend money and time and resources.
(56:28 – 56:40)
They’re just not going to do that because the charge is not worth what it would cost them to go get it. Right. It’s criminal, but it’s under a certain, so it’s like it’s non-extraditable basically.
(56:40 – 56:51)
They won’t come after you. But if you’re there, and we were there, remember that, Tony? Oh, yeah, we were there, and boy, it seemed like she was having a cow. We couldn’t figure out why.
(56:51 – 57:10)
Why was she acting so weird? We both thought she was acting strange the whole time. It was weird. We were there for, like, what, two days? She was acting so weird, and we’re like, what? And then, like, this all went down, and we’re like, oh, because you were in the state where they would arrest you if they pulled you over and found out who you were.
(57:10 – 57:15)
Well, we didn’t know that. Exactly. Yep.
(57:15 – 57:32)
So we’ve had some interesting experiences. We actually did quite a bit of documentation with all the things that we encountered while working with her and having her as part of our organization as well as after that, and it’s just amazing. I mean, a person could write a book.
(57:32 – 57:42)
There’s actually a good movie out there that’s a lot like our experiences with her, but be careful who you talk to if you’ve never met them before. You know, you’re online. It’s like that.
(57:43 – 58:08)
Yeah. So is John online still? Yep, I’m here. Yeah, so what do you think about this stealing incident? I think somebody needs to – I can’t believe, you know, some of the homeowners haven’t pressed charges against their – I don’t know if they’re afraid to or what the deal is.
(58:08 – 58:14)
I mean, if someone came into my house and took something, I wouldn’t be asking them to bring it back. I’d be calling the police. Yeah.
(58:15 – 58:37)
Yeah, but let’s think about the mentality of the clients, and I know we discussed that in the chat room, and the last thing I would want, especially for her or anybody in her camp who believes her, because she’s a very believable person. I believed her for the longest time, is for her to say, yeah, that’s because it didn’t happen. I didn’t steal, because if I would have stolen, I’d be in jail right now.
(58:38 – 59:01)
The truth of the matter is when we go into private client homes, those clients, and like I said in the chat room, the older they are, the more likely they are to feel that they cannot call the police and say, I had ghost hunters in my house and they stole from me. I mean, I would feel like the cause would just look at me and say, well, what did you think they were going to do? They’re ghost hunters. Ghosts don’t exist.
(59:01 – 59:14)
Are you stupid? You know, who wants to risk that type of alien – like, that type of, I don’t know, vintage. You know what I mean? Yeah. It’s hard for me to see it that way, just because I don’t have that mentality.
(59:15 – 59:32)
You know, for me, it would be – it would go down either one of two ways. Either I’d do something about it or I’d call the police on her. But, like, you know, I see what you’re saying about, you know, the client being afraid to call the police because of the reason they’re there, and they might get ridiculed for that.
(59:32 – 59:49)
And I understand that. But with so many different – I mean, how many stories have we gotten about her? I know. For me, personally, I just want to stay as far away from that group as possible.
(59:50 – 1:00:12)
Yeah, so do we. We don’t want to be associated with anybody who’s associated with her. And, I mean, when you really get into the head of the client, it’s like I said at the very beginning, clients think that because you’re offering your services and your time for free, you must be doing a good thing.
(1:00:14 – 1:00:28)
And if I turn around as a client and call the police and say they stole from me, people – you know, they’re probably going to think, well, people aren’t going to believe me because they’re doing this for free. Why would they steal? They’re doing a good thing for people. No one’s going to believe me.
(1:00:28 – 1:00:42)
It’s like accusing a good spirit of doing something bad to you. Who’s going to believe you? Yeah. Well, it ends up being a he said, she said thing, too, because they’ll claim, okay, it was here.
(1:00:43 – 1:01:00)
Can you prove you had it? Can you prove she left here with it? So it’s just – it turns into a big mess. And that’s why – go ahead, I’m sorry. I think the client is better enough to this point, and they’re trying to deal with whatever paranormal activity is occurring in their house and the stress of that.
(1:01:01 – 1:01:22)
And to add this on, they’re just glad that Eric is there and helping them out and trying to figure out what’s going on with them. Yeah. And that’s what makes it so easy for her to target paranormal in particular because of the vulnerable client base, basically, because these situations are going to repeat themselves.
(1:01:24 – 1:01:27)
These mentalities. Go ahead. Sorry.
(1:01:27 – 1:01:39)
Does her team, the people who were there with her that night, did they know? I have no idea. They were there. Did they know that that artifact was taken? I have no idea.
(1:01:40 – 1:01:47)
Like I said, I – Because if you know, they’re just as guilty. Yeah. We have no idea what our other team members know.
(1:01:47 – 1:02:01)
We’re not going to – we can’t say that we know what they know. Yeah, I know. I’m just curious, you know, because, you know, I mean, you know, when we’re doing an investigation, you’re not anywhere alone.
(1:02:02 – 1:02:08)
Yep. So if you picked up something and I was with you, I’d know that. Yeah.
(1:02:08 – 1:02:16)
Yep. You know? That’s a very good point, Teresa. I mean, we don’t go anywhere unless we go in a pair, period.
(1:02:17 – 1:02:21)
Right. I mean, there’s a couple of reasons for that. One is self-protection.
(1:02:21 – 1:02:35)
We want to make sure if something happens, there’s somebody else there. If something paranormal happens, God forbid it happens and there’s nobody else there to witness it. But thirdly, you know, it protects the homeowner just as much as anybody else because we’re all together.
(1:02:35 – 1:02:45)
And if something happens, well, you know, we’re all adults and we need to own up to it. And if not, someone’s going to be there to help you own up to it. Right.
(1:02:45 – 1:02:51)
Right. You know? I mean, it’s just, it just makes common sense. So I don’t know.
(1:02:52 – 1:03:15)
No, no. You know what, Teresa? It makes common sense to a group that thinks ahead and thinks about these things and takes these things seriously. Her group was in the garage babysitting and watching and supervising to make sure the clients could not go inside their house, and they sat out into the garage during the investigation and they played video games because that’s how they do business.
(1:03:17 – 1:03:20)
Hmm. Hmm. Is that right? Yeah.
(1:03:20 – 1:03:25)
I don’t have anything to say about that. I just don’t. Oh, my God.
(1:03:25 – 1:03:41)
I mean, I about fell out of my chair when Tony turned around and told me, yeah, they were out there playing video games. I’m like, what do you mean they were playing video games? Was everybody playing video games? Was it break time? No, they weren’t investigating, so they were just playing video games. Like, are you kidding me? Oh, my God.
(1:03:42 – 1:03:46)
Wow. Hold on just a few minutes, guys. We’re going to kick off a couple commercials.
(1:03:46 – 1:04:38)
We’ll be back. Learn more about Maine Ghost Hunters on the web at www.MaineGhostHunters.org. Zero Lux Radio is always looking for new and interesting guests. If you’d like to suggest a guest or would like to be a guest yourself, contact Maine Ghost Hunters by phone at 207-504-6224 or send email to MaineGhostHunters at MaineGhostHunters.org. Would you like to know what it’s like to be a Maine Ghost Hunter? See us live and in action on our YouTube video channel located at www.youtube.com slash MaineGhostHunters.
(1:04:44 – 1:05:08)
All right. Welcome back to Maine Ghost Hunters Presents Zero Lux Radio. Again, we’re talking this evening about paranormal fraud, continuing our series that we started some time ago and just making sure to build awareness in our community and other paranormal teams to help keep them out there and keep their clients safe and just be aware of who they’re working with.
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We’ve been chatting with Cat, Teresa, Erica, and we’re going to bring them back on here in just a moment, and John. So, John, are you there with us? Yeah, I’m here, Tony. All right.
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Welcome back, John. We’re going to bring the others in. Cat? I am here.
(1:05:24 – 1:05:30)
Hey, Tony, I have a question. Do we have any other callers on the line? Because I know we had a couple people that were going to call in. No callers yet.
(1:05:30 – 1:05:33)
Just us. Okay. And you keep breaking up, by the way.
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Okay. Appreciate it. Okay.
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So, folks, again, paranormal fraud. What’s it all about? How do we stop it? If you want to share some insights, if you have a story to share, you want to ask some questions of the hosts or the other commentators, please feel free to give a call on the guest line. It’s 646-595-3568.
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Again, the guest call-in number is 646-595-3568. So… How do we stop it? Huh? Did you ask how we stop it? Yeah. How do we stop it? How do we stop it? You know what? I’m going to suggest just the first step.
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The first step is, paranormal unity cannot be used as a tool. It cannot be used as a shield for everybody. That’s the first step.
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That’s it. Let’s consider that we’re not in it for the same thing. Go ahead, John.
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Maybe for other groups out there, can you tell them some of the things that you guys have put in place to help protect our group from people like that joining your group? You know, some of the steps we’ve taken. All right. Yeah.
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That’s a good… That’s actually a good idea. Yeah. Tony, you go ahead and do that.
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Because I’m… Sure. Sure. I’m hyper.
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You’re a little over the edge there, Kat. I’m wound. Yeah.
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So… It’s too bad some of our B-team members weren’t here, because they could let you know firsthand what we go through to make sure we don’t have this type of incident or this type of person on our team or involved with our clients again. We… Oh, John. And Teresa went through it, too.
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Oh, that’s true. Yeah. So you guys know.
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So we do… We got… We started a new project or a new sub-team of Mango Center called the B-team. And we brought several people on board. We actually started out with a large group, and then we kind of whittled down based on skill and time commitment and things like that.
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And the B-team’s purpose was to help us review audio evidence that we got from investigations. So when we go into an investigation, we’re going to go through the audio evidence. And we bring in, you know, an awful lot of devices with us for recording audio, video, and what have you.
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And it can become quite hard to manage and make sure we’re doing a thorough job reviewing that. And we’re all about making sure we do the best job we can for our clients. So we brought on the B-team members to help us with that audio review.
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And Teresa, you’ve been through that training. Yes, I have. Erica, you’ve been through that training.
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Correct. And you guys were actually both involved with Maine Ghost Hunters before we kicked off the B-team. And when we kicked off the B-team, we put you through the same steps and the same hurdles that we put the members through that we were not as familiar with.
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And we required them to go to their local police department and get themselves fingerprinted and to bring us those fingerprint cards. And then we did a background check, a criminal state background check against these people to make sure we knew who they were, that they weren’t giving us bad identity information, bad names, false names, aliases, as they had no convictions for any crimes in the state of Maine. And these people, they don’t even go on to client locations.
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Right. They’re just listening to the audio to review and find EVPs or any other anomalies and then report on that. That’s all they’re doing.
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Right. They’re just listening to confidential information. All information that MGH collects is confidential.
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They’re just listening to confidential information. So we’re very adamant and very vocal about our stance with making sure you know who you’re working with and making sure you know who you’re associating with. Because the old adage is true.
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You’re guilty by association. If you’re working with this team, if you are hanging out with this team, if you’re putting together paranormal conferences and events with this team, then you’re just as guilty as they are. We are vocal enough about this topic that there should not be any paranormal teams in New England that do not know who we’re talking about and what we’re talking about.
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And there should not be anybody who has not seen the evidence for themselves. That is the truth. That means our protocol between members and anybody associated with our group is very strict.
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Written on the letter, the T, where we, you know, within our own group to make sure everything goes through the proper channels. You know, it’s not a, you know, hey, let’s get together and go investigate type thing. We make sure everything is done as professional as possible.
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Everything goes through you two, Kat and Tony. And that’s the way it should be probably with a lot of teams. Right.
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But it’s not a control thing as in we’re controlling our members. It’s the control of information in and out of main ghost hunters because the only one that loses in the end is the client. Because it’s not, it’s, huh? I agree with you and that’s why those protocols are there is to protect the client.
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Right. Because it’s the, because the board gets out about a client, you know, it’s not, it’s not our lives that are disrupted. I mean, our lives are going to be disrupted because our clients, you know, if, if we care about our clients, we’re going to care if their information gets out, of course.
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But in the end, it’s not our lives that are disrupted. It’s their lives that are disrupted. You know? Yeah.
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I mean, and we know, we know firsthand that, you know, the destruction that this person can cause. It’s, it’s, it’s not something you want to deal with. It’s not something you want to go through.
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It’s not something you want to experience. And you know, we just, we, we want you to be safe. We want you to be careful.
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We want you to, we want you to enjoy your, you know, your time in the paranormal community and helping your clients. Right. It’s not something that we want anyone else’s clients to be subjected to, God forbid, victimized because of.
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And as we will progress through this paranormal fraud series, we will all listen again. We’ll listen again. You’ll listen for the first time.
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We’ll hear the stories of other victims because that’s what they are, because word is out and people weren’t listening, but they’re listening now. Yes, they are listening now. There are a lot of people that are taking and paying attention and noticing the subtle things that indicate the falsities that this person is perpetuating.
(1:13:02 – 1:13:15)
Yep. Yep. So, and if you, if you have not listened to some of our previous broadcasts, they’re all available here on blog talk to listen to, they’re all archived here and they’re also available through iTunes.
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So you can, if you have iTunes, you can have an iPod or some other device that can sync the music or wave files or sound files from iTunes. You can download them free of charge from iTunes and sync them to your device or your computer and take them with you. You don’t even have to have an internet connection and just listen.
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And actually, I’m sorry, Tony, actually we have, we have, we have two files. They say names, they say dates, they say everything. Anything that you need answered about this person and her group, go to our website.
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They’re all on there and it’s www.MainGhostHunters.org slash media. Yeah, I’m sure that you’ll have, you’ll have some enlightening moments when you listen to those, to those broadcasts because these are first hand experiences of people who have been victimized by this person that we are talking about. Yup, including a woman who she actually, honestly, literally bankrupted, literally bankrupted.
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And made homeless. Oh yeah, the woman was homeless. She lost everything.
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It’s not just the same. She went bankrupt. She went homeless.
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So if you want the whole story, you want names, you want dates, you want the entire accounts, first hand knowledge from the victims, from her earliest victims, you’ll go to our website at www.MainGhostHunters.org slash media and check out our Paranormal Fraud Series there. There’s way more information there. And John just, actually, MJH John just posted a link to our site with that address and how to get to those, how to get to those podcasts and I just posted into the chat room as well.
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I’ll link to iTunes where you can get the rest of the blog talk feeds from. Yup. And those two episodes are called, I’m sorry, those two episodes are called A Victim Speaks and A View from the Inside.
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Go ahead. I was going to say we have 85 episodes now on iTunes. Nice.
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You’ve been busy. Yeah. That includes the one that just happened this last Sunday.
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Alright, good. So that’s one nice thing about blog talk. They can sync our things to iTunes really well.
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Oh yeah. And fast, too. Yeah, so let’s talk about protocol.
(1:15:37 – 1:15:51)
How come we’re not playing video games when we’re on investigations? What are we thinking? I know. I mean, we should bring our Xbox with us and then a little computer screen and we’d be all set. That’s because we’re working.
(1:15:52 – 1:16:02)
No, kidding. Theresa, can you imagine us standing there looking at the client and telling them, no, you cannot come into your house. It’s not safe.
(1:16:03 – 1:16:07)
Don’t come in. No. No, definitely not.
(1:16:08 – 1:16:26)
We usually have at least one person there. If not, several. I mean, depending on the client’s home, the only places that I can think of that we’ve been alone, it’s been of their choice and it’s somebody that you know really well.
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Yeah, like a relative or a family friend or something. Yeah, even a public location, usually somebody hangs out with us from that location. So, the very last thing that I can’t even imagine telling a client that their house is so disruptive, so spiritually active and unpredictable that we don’t want them in there.
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I got a question for you, Tony. Yeah. Because Theresa and I, we’ve been there just a little over a year.
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How many investigations would you say you guys have done? Oh, goodness. I don’t know. It’s a serious question, John.
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I know it must be a lot. How many times have you ever found something so negative that you wouldn’t want to be there? Just one time. I was going to say, from what I’ve done, I’ve seen some interesting things, but nothing to the point where I wouldn’t want to be there.
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And it sounds to me like this person is going around almost every other place and you shouldn’t be there that bad. I mean… Well, when you think about it, so if you’re… Yeah. So I think the goal in her mind is to make people believe that they are such at risk if she does not help them, that they will do anything for her to help them.
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Then she can become the savior. Exactly. And then she can take advantage.
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Exactly. That’s why being the leader and the founder of a group, an organization that networks and absorbs other groups, after hearing this show and all the other shows that we’ve done to warn people, they should be scared that their reputation is at risk, that their clients are at risk, that anyone who comes into contact with her leadership is at risk because that is her mentality. But those people probably, the other people who are part of her group, probably will not believe that until something happens to them.
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You’re exactly right. A hundred percent. Because often, you know, we often want to believe the best in people.
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You know, we want to give people the benefit of the doubt and believe that people can change. And I’m not saying people can’t. Don’t get me wrong.
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I’m not saying that people can’t. You know, they definitely can. But, you know, until it comes up and slaps them right in the face, they’re not going to believe it.
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So, you know, if you think about it out there, and you think about, you know, predators who prey on other people, that’s always the case. It’s always, well, they’re such an upstanding person. They’ve always been the best neighbor.
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They’ve always this, they’ve always that, until something happens. You got it. And then people will then understand.
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And no matter how much you say, no matter how much you warn, no matter how much you do that, unless people are going to go into things, you know, kind of suspiciously, which is kind of a shame that people have to think that way, it won’t change. You’ve got it.